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Joffrey was NOT worse than Aerys


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#1 T.C

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:56 AM

Okay i have seen a few people on here and on other websites comment saying that they think Joffrey is worse than Aerys was...Well i personally believe that is ludicrous.

 

Joffreys track record

- Attempted to kill Bran

- Killed Ned Stark (mostly under LF's influence)

- Beat Sansa here and there

- Killed peasants with Crossbows

- Abused whores (Not sure if this is book cannon, memory is foggy)

 

 

 

Okay yeah, Joffrey clearly is a horrible person, but...

 

Aerys Track record

- Raped and abused his wife

- Cut out Ilyn Paynes toungue

- Burned people frequently and ejaculated from it

- Burned Rickard Stark alive and caused Brandon to choke to death watching on a torture device (seriously this is disgusting)

- Attempted to commit democide on half a million people with wildfire

 

I'm sure i left a few out for both of them but yeah as you can see i don't personally see any comparison on who was more vile. I mean yeah some will say 'Oh but Aerys started out promising'. My reply to that is so what? Him being 'nice' once doesn't suddenly erase or justify his atrocities committed later on.



#2 TheSamsa

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:03 AM

- Abused whores (Not sure if this is book cannon, memory is foggy)

Pretty sure thats show only

 

 

- Cut out Ilyn Paynes toungue

It seems this is a quite common punishment in Westeros, the reason for it though is ludicrous. (He said Tywin Lannister is truly ruling the kingdome as he was Hand of the King)

 

 

But I think so too, Aerys was worse. Not by very much though



#3 T.C

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:06 AM

Pretty sure thats show only

 

 

It seems this is a quite common punishment in Westeros, the reason for it though is ludicrous. (He said Tywin Lannister is truly ruling the kingdome as he was Hand of the King)

 

 

But I think so too, Aerys was worse. Not by very much though

Yeah that's true. The burning fetish alone really puts him way above Joff for me 



#4 Danelle

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:09 AM

Well both were horrible, that's certain.

 

Aerys did seem to have issues with Tywin, and has used sex and power as a way to control others and prove his strength, just like Joffrey.

 

Although Aerys was clearly affected by his imprisonment in Duskendale, this doesn't excuse his awful actions.

 

And Joffrey being a bastard born of incest, doesn't excuse his actions either, especially if we are to compare him to Myrcella and Tommen.

 

Let us not forget that Joffrey ruled for a brief and turbulent period of time, whereas Aerys' reign was for the most part and mostly due to Tywin, a prosperous era.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if more nasty details about Aerys appear in the next books...



#5 T.C

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:12 AM

Well both were horrible, that's certain.

 

Aerys did seem to have issues with Tywin, and has used sex and power as a way to control others and prove his strength, just like Joffrey.

 

Although Aerys was clearly affected by his imprisonment in Duskendale, this doesn't excuse his awful actions.

 

And Joffrey being a bastard born of incest, doesn't excuse his actions either, especially if we are to compare him to Myrcella and Tommen.

 

Let us not forget that Joffrey ruled for a brief and turbulent period of time, whereas Aerys' reign was for the most part and mostly due to Tywin, a prosperous era.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if more nasty details about Aerys appear in the next books...

Yeah I was going to put that in the op, we probably haven't heard the last of Aerys atrocities. But I mainly wanted to just keep this as a factual thread.


Edited by T.C, 02 July 2014 - 05:12 AM.


#6 LordStoneheart

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:15 AM

To Aerys' credit him and Tywin gave the realm good years. No excuse for later, but he still had good years. Joffrey may not have been as bad of a person, but Aerys was for the most part a better king.



#7 Danelle

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:19 AM

I am also wondering if it is right to assume that Aerys was uncontrollable, whereas Joffrey could be controlled, to a certain extent.

 

Myrcella, Tyrion did stood up against Joffrey, Tywin and Kevan didn't seem particularly excited at the prospect of serving Aerys III.

 

The tragedy at Summerhall, meant that there was noone left to control Aerys, apart from Rhaella, who was unable to stop him...

 

I just realised how sorry I feel for poor Rhaella :(



#8 Talking Hodor

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:19 AM

Joffrey was both stupid and a tyrant, which in some ways makes him worse than Aerys.  However, his stupidity (and age and short reign) limited how much evil he could do.  In that regard, Aerys was worse.  However I firmly believe that if Joffrey hadn't turned a fabulous shade of purple and had reigned for a decade or so, he would have made Aerys look like an angel in comparison.  You could just smell the evil oozing off of him, whereas Aerys reeked of piss and insanity.



#9 T.C

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:21 AM

Joffrey was both stupid and a tyrant, which in some ways makes him worse than Aerys.  However, his stupidity (and age and short reign) limited how much evil he could do.  In that regard, Aerys was worse.  However I firmly believe that if Joffrey hadn't turned a fabulous shade of purple and had reigned for a decade or so, he would have made Aerys look like an angel in comparison.  You could just smell the evil oozing off of him, whereas Aerys reeked of piss and insanity.

What, you're saying Aerys was smart? "OMG I'm going to be reborn a dragon, burn me!"



#10 James Arryn

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:22 AM

I have often read on here that burning criminals isn't really a big deal, and that opposing the Rightful King is a crime. (Isn't fashion a funny animal?)

Presumably nor would ligatures be wrong for 'traitors.'

Edited by Don Diego d'Arrynos, 02 July 2014 - 05:24 AM.


#11 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:27 AM

I am also wondering if it is right to assume that Aerys was uncontrollable, whereas Joffrey could be controlled, to a certain extent.
 
Myrcella, Tyrion did stood up against Joffrey, Tywin and Kevan didn't seem particularly excited at the prospect of serving Aerys III.
 
The tragedy at Summerhall, meant that there was noone left to control Aerys, apart from Rhaella, who was unable to stop him...
 
I just realised how sorry I feel for poor Rhaella :(

Agree, I would be very interested in learning a bit more about Rhaella actually, she was certainly a very unfortunate woman.
In defence of Aerys, his reign supposedly started with great promise (Barristan). I dont know how reliable the claim is (hopefully the World book will shed light on this) but I imagine there is at least some merit to it.

#12 T.C

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:29 AM

Agree, I would be very interested in learning a bit more about Rhaella actually, she was certainly a very unfortunate woman.
In defence of Aerys, his reign supposedly started with great promise (Barristan). I dont know how reliable the claim is (hopefully the World book will shed light on this) but I imagine there is at least some merit to it.

It started out in promise because of Tywin, what happened when he was sacked?



#13 The Wolves

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:31 AM

Yeah Aerys was a horrible person but he wasn't like that his whole life like Joffery.

Joffery would have been worse with time and power and the free reign his monstrous relatives gave him.

#14 James Arryn

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:34 AM

Yeah Aerys was a horrible person but he wasn't like that his whole life like Joffery.
Joffery would have been worse with time and power and the free reign his monstrous relatives gave him.


I wouldn't say the Lannisters gave Joff free reign at all. They may not have had altruistic reasons, but Tywin, Tyrion and Cersei had all opposed Joff in various ways and my impression is Jaime would have done likewise or more eventually.

What's scary is how he'd behave in the fullness of time, when technical rationales for curbing his behaviour fell away.

#15 T.C

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:37 AM

Again with the what ifs. Joffrey died so we don't know what would have happened. For all we know Tywin could have eventually put him in his place and the rest of his rule would have been okay. Did Joffrey ever consider killing half a million people? Or orgasm at the sight of burning flesh?



#16 Beorn Snow

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:38 AM

Aerys started out well but went mad. Joffrey was ... well, can you imagine what he could have become once he was a grown man, Tywin dead and Jaime old.

Luckily he´d have been crushed by some rebellion eventually like Aerys, but it would have been bad from the start.



#17 The Holy Goat

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:38 AM

Joffrey died before he bacame as monstrous as Aerys. Had he lived he would likely have been up there with him.



#18 Danelle

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:38 AM

Agree, I would be very interested in learning a bit more about Rhaella actually, she was certainly a very unfortunate woman.
In defence of Aerys, his reign supposedly started with great promise (Barristan). I dont know how reliable the claim is (hopefully the World book will shed light on this) but I imagine there is at least some merit to it.

I believe that the statement about the promising aspect of his reign is correct.

Afterall it was him that chose Tywin, and it appears that in the beginning, their dynamic was strong and had good results.

 

It started out in promise because of Tywin, what happened when he was sacked?

Le Déluge



#19 The Wolves

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:42 AM

I wouldn't say the Lannisters gave Joff free reign at all. They may not have had altruistic reasons, but Tywin, Tyrion and Cersei had all opposed Joff in various ways and my impression is Jaime would have done likewise or more eventually.

What's scary is how he'd behave in the fullness of time, when technical rationales for curbing his behaviour fell away.


Once Joffery became 16 and took control of the crown he would have been uncontrollable.

And no Tywin and Cersei would have let him go terrorize, rape and abuse anybody he would have liked as long as they had control of the realm. Jaime would have stood by and followed Joffery because that would be what Cersei wanted.

Tyrion would have been stopped from disciplining Joffery because nobody would have enforced Joffery's discipline.

#20 LordStoneheart

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:43 AM

yes, Aerys did worse things than Joffrey in his later years. He turned mad.

 

Joff started out mad. There should be no doubt that Joff would have been worse had he lived.