JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I hate that word, too. See, I knew I liked you, LOL And, being a woman, I'm allowed to hate that word, consider it my exercising of my 'agency.' ;) Cersei does seem a poster child to illustrate how a woman should NOT act toward other women. She's not as smart as she thinks she is, but still, Victarion doesn't have quite enough smarts to be on the same level as Cersei when it comes to 'evilness.' heh heh... Well, I've always thought that to be "evil" there is some smartness required. Victarion doesn't have that (although I never thought him to be as stupid as people think, despite GRRM's words). Victarion is a simple man. He doesn't act unless he gets his orders. He lives by the rule: wakes up, eats, fucks, sails, returns home, eats, fucks, sleep. Repeats. That doesn't make him evil, imho. In fact, staying away of the "game" is what has kept him alive. As soon as he stepped into it, he got hurt and now will probably die in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 heh heh...Well, I've always thought that to be "evil" there is some smartness required. Victarion doesn't have that (although I never thought him to be as stupid as people think, despite GRRM's words).Victarion is a simple man. He doesn't act unless he gets his orders. He lives by the rule: wakes up, eats, fucks, sails, returns home, eats, fucks, sleep. Repeats. That doesn't make him evil, imho. In fact, staying away of the "game" is what has kept him alive. As soon as he stepped into it, he got hurt and now will probably die in Essos. He also broods. :frown5: :angry: :angry2: <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 He also broods. :frown5: :angry: :angry2: <_< <looks up the word at the dictionary> He sits on eggs to hatch them???? Is this in another lost chapter I'm missing like the one I don't have about him having an erection because of Asha??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 heh heh...Well, I've always thought that to be "evil" there is some smartness required. Victarion doesn't have that (although I never thought him to be as stupid as people think, despite GRRM's words).Victarion is a simple man. He doesn't act unless he gets his orders. He lives by the rule: wakes up, eats, fucks, sails, returns home, eats, fucks, sleep. Repeats. That doesn't make him evil, imho. In fact, staying away of the "game" is what has kept him alive. As soon as he stepped into it, he got hurt and now will probably die in Essos. I do agree, he's not absolutely butt-dumb. Being a simple man that looks to and for rules to live by probably contributes to him not exercising his brain in a certain manner. But, he's not hopeless, he does turn stuff over in his mind, I'll give him that. I don't expect him to live much longer myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 <looks up the word at the dictionary>He sits on eggs to hatch them????Is this in another lost chapter I'm missing like the one I don't have about him having an erection because of Asha??? :lmao: These two things do seem as if they could go together. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 brood verb: to think a lot about something in an unhappy way He drank in the darkness, brooding on his brother. If I do not strike the blow with mine own hand, am I still a kinslayer? Victarion feared no man, but the Drowned God’s curse gave him pause. If another strikes him down at my command, will his blood still stain my hands? Aeron Damphair would know the answer, but the priest was somewhere back on the Iron Islands, still hoping to raise the ironborn against their new-crowned king. Nute the Barber can shave a man with a thrown axe from twenty yards away. And none of Euron’s mongrels could stand against Wulfe One-Ear or Andrik the Unsmiling. Any of them could do it. But what a man can do and what a man will do are two different things, he knew. “Storms,” Ralf the Limper had muttered when he came crawling to Victarion. “Three big storms, and foul winds between. Red winds out of Valyria that smelled of ash and brimstone, and black winds that drove us toward that blighted shore. This voyage was cursed from the first. The Crow’s Eye fears you, my lord, why else send you so far away? He does not mean for us to return.”Victarion had thought the same when he met the first storm a day out of Old Volantis. The gods hate kinslayers, he brooded, elsewise Euron Crow’s Eye would have died a dozen deaths by my hand. What would the Crow’s Eye do? He brooded on that for a time, then signaled to his captains. “We sail the straits.” Bitterly Victarion brooded on the treachery of brothers. Euron’s gifts are always poisoned. But yeah, with so much brooding, he can hatch a few dragon eggs of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 But yeah, with so much brooding, he can hatch a few dragon eggs of his own. :lol: Well, Victarion does have a conscience. He also has a clear definition of "right" and "wrong", even for IB standards. Killing an enemy is ok. Humiliating him, not ok. To me, at least, when you have limitations and moral standards, you have the chance of having some redemption, which is exactly the case of Jaime as well. Cersei doesn't. She thinks and feels everything is ok. as long as it helps her to her goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Is this in another lost chapter I'm missing like the one I don't have about him having an erection because of Asha??? Actually the way he tried to kill that erection is enough to prove that he is not an evil man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Actually the way he tried to kill that erection is enough to prove that he is not an evil man. LOL, you may win the thread. :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Actually the way he tried to kill that erection is enough to prove that he is not an evil man. lol... "easy... easy now, boy..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Victarion is not evil, he was just born in the society with pretty evil values and he is too dumb to see them as such. He is among those people, that would have been infinitely better, had they been born in a better place or in better circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damp Hair - The Prophet Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 This topic is super dumb. Victarion is FAR from the most evil (really, like, super duper dumb to even put that up for contention). A lot of you don't like the Ironborn, & I get it. Their awesomeness does not require your understanding, however. This is not a 21st century gender studies classroom, this is a harsh, medieval feudal world and Vic is a man of his times. There is no agency in Planetos so potent as his axe. Firstly, GRRM loves writing this guy. He said so in his most recent interview & his POV chapters show w/ tremendous fun & verve. Expect him to stay around longer than you think. He is not particularly astute but the snobbery w/ which many call him dumb is irksome. He's a admiral. He leads thousands of the toughest S.O.Bs around. Do you even know how to sail? I'm convinced some Vic haters can't even tie their own shoes. He has a code. He honors strength & worthy foes & finds humiliating enemies distasteful. If you can't defend yourself he doesn't have much respect for you. Might makes right (pretty common in Westeros, he's just better at it than most). & Nobody much thinks of Aegon the conqueror as a bad guy but he took Westeros b/c he could, and royally screwed over the Ironborn for 300years but that's another story. He's never had luck w/ women prob b/c he's actually a big softy inside &/or emotions are too confusing for him (as he cannot hit them w/ his axe). He cries about his wife. He prob has a small peen & is sensitive. The Dusky woman is always wet & smiling at him when he returns to their cabin. The idiot fisherman mocked the imposing captain of the fleet who had just seized him to his face in front of his crew--death wish much? As Vic thinks in that moment.."he should not have said that." What is a fleet about to go to war going to do w/ a bunch of boy prostitutes? Feed, clothes, and house them for what use? Take a detour to drop them off? No. Feed them to the sea. Please the God. Same w/ the burned slave women. A gift requires a sacrifice. Their sails fill w/ strong wind immediately after. And he DOES NOT enjoy their screams you ignoramuses, he thinks to himself that they start sounding like singing--something mentioned elsewhere when Mel burns people at the stake. He frees slaves & makes them thralls instead, which IS a step up in life. Iron Islanders treat thralls (who can become free and own land etc) significantly better than those damn dog eating Ghiscari Harzoos. He's dutiful. He keeps thinking how easy it would be to just beat his ACTUALLY EVIL brother Euron to death w/ his giant bowling ball sized fists yet he doesn't b/c he follows the rules & he's devoutly religious. Victarion Greyjoy is awesome and a more decent man than most. He is warm & fuzzy inside, I just know it. & Cersie has been killing out of spite since she was a child, just ask Melara's bones at the bottom of a well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 stuff &Victarion Greyjoy is awesome and a more decent man than most. He is warm & fuzzy inside, I just know it. & Cersie has been killing out of spite since she was a child, just ask Melara's bones at the bottom of a well.Brilliant summation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Victarion Greyjoy is awesome and a more decent man than most. He is warm & fuzzy inside, I just know it. & Cersie has been killing out of spite since she was a child, just ask Melara's bones at the bottom of a well. His soul: https://img1.etsystatic.com/026/1/7870446/il_340x270.559085595_fta9.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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