MLB 2014: Tanaka is a bust!

[Ghjhero]

For those who are saying the A's can manage without Cespedes, they have under a 400 winning percentage without him playing. Take that as you will.

[Tyrion Lannister]

I find this next move by St. Louis a bit strange too.

I guess one could say that they upgraded a starting pitcher for this year's stretch, but Kelly is an exiting young player to give up, and he pitched quite well in the post season last year and is just taking some time to get healthy this year. Craig is hard to figure out. He was great most of the year last year and then had that injury in the final month and has never appeared to be the same although he says it's not the injury.

But if both of those guys were to break towards the top of their potential, it would seem that Boston got a great deal.

I guess Taveres is going to continue to get a lot of playing time. I hope he can start doing something with it. Everyone still has him rated as a megaprospect, but he's stayed around the Mendoza line all year.

I wouldn't have traded Kelly for Lackey straight-up. Throwing Craig in on top of that makes zero sense to me.

Someone on the MLB Network was saying they thought the Red Sox got more for Lackey than the Rays got for David Price. It makes me wonder why St. Louis didn't take a run at him instead.

[DanteGabriel]

Someone on the MLB Network was saying they thought the Red Sox got more for Lackey than the Rays got for David Price. It makes me wonder why St. Louis didn't take a run at him instead.

Conspiracy theory time: Earlier in the year, Lackey had been sending signals to the Red Sox about not really wanting to play for $500K next year and might retire or something. Perhaps if there were an Understanding that Lackey would be willing to play for St. Louis (or whichever team he went to) for that price next year, his contract would be much more valuable in a trade...

[Tyrion Lannister]

Conspiracy theory time: Earlier in the year, Lackey had been sending signals to the Red Sox about not really wanting to play for $500K next year and might retire or something. Perhaps if there were an Understanding that Lackey would be willing to play for St. Louis (or whichever team he went to) for that price next year, his contract would be much more valuable in a trade...

He has apparently told St. Louis he will honor his deal and play for that salary next year, but we'll see.

[DanteGabriel]

Analysis of Lester's pitching this year, which I guess is like the sports fan equivalent of looking at pictures of the ex you regret losing, even if you bitterly accept the necessity of the split.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pitchcraft-jon-lester-moneyball-mercenary/

[Dio]

I wouldn't have traded Kelly for Lackey straight-up. Throwing Craig in on top of that makes zero sense to me.

Someone on the MLB Network was saying they thought the Red Sox got more for Lackey than the Rays got for David Price. It makes me wonder why St. Louis didn't take a run at him instead.

Craig is a slow 30 year old corner outfielder having an abysmal season after a foot injury, with limited power and inflated production stats due to unsustainable average w/ RISP who is creating a logjam in the OF and blocking the franchise's #1 prospect. He's got a solid career batting average and that's about it. Those RBI totals everyone is always going nuts over weren't going to continue - .400+ avg w/ RISP every season is not realistic and he doesn't have the power numbers to make up for it.

Kelly is a barely serviceable #4 or #5 starter who is wildly inconsistent and doesn't have very good stuff. He throws hard, but his strikeout totals are low and he barely gets through 5 innings per start. His WHIP is awful so he lives or dies on stranding runners with ground balls hit right at people.

Lackey is a ridiculous bargain next year at $500k. Whether he actually honors that contract is in question, but the Cardinals moved a superfluous outfielder having a terrible season with a bad contract and a marginally average starter for a proven veteran who may be the best value starter in baseball next season.

The only way this is a "steal" for the Red Sox is if Craig magically turns things around and continues his ridiculous RISP numbers for the next few years and Kelly somehow manages to morph into an actual pitcher and not just a guy who throws hard and hopes for ground balls to find infielders.

Neither moves St. Louis made were huge blockbusters (I think they could have had Price instead of Lackey too), but they addressed an issue and gave up guys they don't really need.

[Myshkin]

I'm still baffled by yersterday's moves. The Cards gave up too much to get Lackey, the A's traded their clean-up hitter to rent Lester, and the Rays got a shitty return on Price. The big winners are the Tigers. The Sawks seem to have made out pretty good too, but who's gonna pitch for them next year?

[DanteGabriel]

The big winners seem to be the Sawks, but who's gonna pitch for them next year?

Who else will be a free agent in the offseason? I've heard a figure that they have $100 million in payroll commitments for 2015, so they could conceivably throw $75 million at free agency this year.

[Myshkin]

So Scherzer to the Sawks?

[Ghjhero]

So Scherzer to the Sawks?

Sounds good to me! But I'd rather get Lester back for old times sake.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'm still baffled by yersterday's moves. The Cards gave up too much to get Lackey, the A's traded their clean-up hitter to rent Lester, and the Rays got a shitty return on Price. The big winners are the Tigers. The Sawks seem to have made out pretty good too, but who's gonna pitch for them next year?

Yeah, that A's move was the most puzzling one to me. I'm left guessing that Cespedes was some sort of lockeroom headache. Nothing else really makes sense to me. I get that they're all in for this season, but it seems to me that Cespedes was a fairly integral part of that team.

[DanteGabriel]

Yeah, that A's move was the most puzzling one to me. I'm left guessing that Cespedes was some sort of lockeroom headache. Nothing else really makes sense to me. I get that they're all in for this season, but it seems to me that Cespedes was a fairly integral part of that team.

May be instructive to consider the trade to have been 2 months of Lester for 8 months of Cespedes. Did the As think they could retain Cespedes after 2015?

[Myshkin]

Yeah, the A's weren't likely to keep Cespedes after 2015, but deadline deals usually involve sending prospects for big leaguers, basically selling the future to win now, not trading a key peice of your team for a new peice. It kind of reminds me of 2004 when the Dodgers sent Paul Lo Duca, Guillermo Mota, and Juan Encarnacion to Florida for Brad Penny and Hee Seop Choi. Sure Penny was a front-line starter but we sent away the heart of our team to get him, and it didn't make us better. How much better are the A's off now? Especially considering they already had the best starting rotation in the AL.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

May be instructive to consider the trade to have been 2 months of Lester for 8 months of Cespedes. Did the As think they could retain Cespedes after 2015?

Probably not, but I'd still take 8 months of Cespedes over 2 months of Lester. It's not like the A's are going to take a run at resigning Lester either.

They are going to have to put some runs on the board to get past the Tigers. It's not all about the pitching, and I'd say pitching was their strength to begin with. Cespedes brought both defense and a big bat to the plate. And he plays everyday. How many starts are they going to get out of Lester? 10? Maybe 12? Not a good trade, IMHO.

[DanteGabriel]

How many starts are they going to get out of Lester? 10? Maybe 12? Not a good trade, IMHO.

From my perspective on Lester in the playoffs, which I think this is what it's really about, I'd say we (Boston fans) basically counted on him for two wins in every playoff series.

Not arguing with you on the general merits of the value exchange. That's very subjective, as I don't think Cespedes is good enough at hitting for average or getting on base to justify losing our best and most consistent pitcher at the prime of his career and I think Lester's skill set will age well, but theoretically Cespedes is supposed to hit a lot of homers and wall doubles in Fenway.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I'm not meaning to down on Lester. I just think at this point that pitching is such a strength for the A's, that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to subtract from their offense to add pitching.

[Jaxom 1974]

I'm not meaning to down on Lester. I just think at this point that pitching is such a strength for the A's, that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to subtract from their offense to add pitching.

The scuttlebutt I wad hearing today was that Billy Bean putting all the chips in this year on pitching for the playoffs is part in parcel to the A's not having enough pitching the last couple years...

Cespedes was also likely being traded in the of season, so it was two months of Lester for two months of Cespedes. Since they were going to look for pitching for him at the winter meetings, Billy decided to push all in one more time, particularly since Hamel had been struggling.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

From my perspective on Lester in the playoffs, which I think this is what it's really about, I'd say we (Boston fans) basically counted on him for two wins in every playoff series.

Not arguing with you on the general merits of the value exchange. That's very subjective, as I don't think Cespedes is good enough at hitting for average or getting on base to justify losing our best and most consistent pitcher at the prime of his career and I think Lester's skill set will age well, but theoretically Cespedes is supposed to hit a lot of homers and wall doubles in Fenway.

You're only losing him for two months of an already lost season :)

Lester most likely re-signs with Boston this off-season unless he somehow got offended by Boston media/fans/front office and resolves to only entertain the obligatory Yankees/Dodgers/Angels offer on a principle. But I haven't heard anything of that sort.

The A's have about as much chance of re-signing Lester as they do of re-signing Cespedes: 0% And That's Only Because It's Not Mathematically Possible To Be Less Than That. Cespedes has been flipped like so many A's fan favorites before, it's just that this time instead of being flipped for pieces of a theoretical future, it was pieces to WIN NOW, which is new and exciting and scary (after all, it might not even WORK, wouldn't that feel terrible?)

It's all about that third month of the Lester rental (i.e. October). Whether this is "worth it" or not can't be known until then and Lester's handful of regular season starts are almost irrelevant (it's those Two Wins A Playoff Series Sawx Nation counted on that Beane/the fans are thinking about).

Also the Coliseum is the Anti-Coors when it comes to offensive numbers. There's a square mile* of foul territory at the Mausoleum (and this is why no Oakland Athletic has ever or will ever win a batting title); there's about 12 square inches** of foul territory at Fenway. He'll be fine (except he's actually not a particularly "good" left fielder [he simply has a tremendously gifted throwing arm that does much to compensate] and the monster is probably going to fuck with him something serious, but this is the Junior Circuit and you can always DH him :) )

Cespedes, however, has some of that "it" where he's just exciting to watch in a way that doesn't necessarily translate to baseball cards. I really think The Nation is gonna enjoy him.

* hyperbole

** also hyperbole

[Ramsay B.]

I was definitely excited to get Lester and Price out of the east but Sox getting Kelly AND Craig for Lackey was just stupid on Cards part, Craig is an RBI machine. Yanks have to get either Sherzer or Lester during the offseason, I'll write a letter.

[DanteGabriel]

Sox-Yanks tonight. Major league debut for a young pitcher, got his first strikeout on Jeter, finished with a win. Good game. Kinda regret giving away the tickets now.

You're only losing him for two months of an already lost season :)

Lester most likely re-signs with Boston this off-season unless he somehow got offended by Boston media/fans/front office and resolves to only entertain the obligatory Yankees/Dodgers/Angels offer on a principle. But I haven't heard anything of that sort.

I would love to be confident in the possibility of his re-signing. It's just that -- management could have signed him for something high but reasonable this offseason and probably during the season. Seemed like they just didn't want to pay him that much. So do they now plan to pay him that much when he's on the open market and they have to outbid the Yankees for him? Or at least stay competitive with the Yankees, and whoever else wants in.