Discussing Season 4

[Miodrag]

Angry much?

I defend D&D's work because I happen to like it, not because they're celebrities. This is a strawman if I ever saw one. And a typical reaction of people who think they've been robbed of "well-deserved" opportunities in life. The very fact that you feel so enraged because someone somewhere dares to like the show and "apologise" for "talentless hacks" speaks volumes.

And yes, I have read your columns. They truly helped formulate my opinion here.

I hope you realize it's the other way around: you are angry at me for daring to dislike the show you happen to have a crush on (just like you seem to be angry at anyone who dares to criticize D&D), and you seem to be obsessed with opportunities I had or had not in my life. It's not me who keeps bringing them up - you are! It really doesn't get more pathetic than that, I'd say.

[Mr Fixit]

I hope you realize it's the other way around: you are angry at me for daring to dislike the show you happen to have a crush on (just like you seem to be angry at anyone who dares to criticize D&D), and you seem to be obsessed with opportunities I had or had not in my life. It's not me who keeps bringing them up - you are! It really doesn't get more pathetic than that, I'd say.

It's not me who throws around "pathetic" and similar words on a constant basis. Beware of the Dark Side, Miodrag. It's bad for the heart, I hear.

[Raja]

This simple fact is what amazes me the most about GoT--they gave control of the show--not to mention millions of dollars--to people who had zero experience in the field. Of all the numerous and justified criticisms of the show, the majority have their genesis in this appalling fact.

Zero idea why this amazes you. If you have a look at Hollywood, you'll see it littered with examples of how directors with zero experience in stuff are given multi-million dollar deals to do projects.

Also, say that David and Dan have no talent at all is hyperbole to the extreme. They've fleshed out characters better than Martin did on several occasions, I love the book but some of the stuff posted in this thread is absurd.

[boojam]

You say D&D are recognized. May I ask by who? By those countless TV critics and reviewers?

Should it be that anyone who was only a screenplay writer with no producer - directorial experience never be given a chance at directing?

For instance John Huston spent 10 years as a radio play and screenwriter (I am not sure he was always 'on set') before being given a chance at directing The Maltese Falcon in 1941, he also wrote it.... so I guess that film is a turkey? There are dozens of directors and producers who started out as writers, some succeeded some did not.

David Benioff had ~ 10 years of visual media work, like Huston, I think he is the show runner lead.

I am pleased with his work , can lump me with those 18.4 viewers who seem to like the show.

[Newstar]

Zero idea why this amazes you. If you have a look at Hollywood, you'll see it littered with examples of how directors with zero experience in stuff are given multi-million dollar deals to do projects.

Also, say that David and Dan have no talent at all is hyperbole to the extreme. They've fleshed out characters better than Martin did on several occasions, I love the book but some of the stuff posted in this thread is absurd.

I think it's funny, myself. The absurd hyperbole, vitriol, and sheer oppobrium make sense when you consider that they're shouting into the wind at this point given GOT's monstrous commercial and critical success, and they know it.

[Woman of War]

!his is probably the most pathetic example of the most pathetic aspect of today's pathetic culture: that people like you defend people like D&D from people like me. If anything pains me, then it's the fact that I live in a world in which this thing - this hysterical identification with people who are unremarkable in any way imaginable, except that they're celebrities - is not only possible, but quite frequent.

"People like you" vs "people like me" LOL

I got it: you are an incredibly remarkable unique person while those like me or Newstar or Mr Fixit or D&D are just unimportant talentless nothings.

Everything you write is pompous and sounds like sour grapes.

[Masamune]

Everything sucks once it becomes mainstream. D&D know they can simply aim for the cheap seats now.

[Mr Fixit]

Everything sucks once it becomes mainstream. D&D know they can simply aim for the cheap seats now.

Everyone wants to be a part of a select group. "Mainstream", real or imagined, robs us of our well-deserved special snowflake status.

I mean, why do you think all secret or quasi-secret societies have those silly induction ceremonies and other pomp? It's their equivalent of Only Cat. Dispense with those outward formalities, you're suddenly not so special anymore. Or so would rather shallow conventional wisdom want us to think. And that's why every sufficiently large or sufficiently committed fandom inevitably breaks apart at the seams - namely, debating the formalities and the most superficial of concerns.

[boojam]

On some comments made.

I couldn't figure out if scenes where shot and cut out, that has happened.

So it was odd that Natalie Dormer , who seemingly will play a bigger role in the future as Margaery,... vanishes after episode 6, oddly tho she was in that episode , had no speaking role.

Roger Ashton-Griffiths gets more speaking time at the trial than I think any other episode.

Oddly I also expected Margaery , to be at least a spectator in episode 8, I remember a non speaking Mace Tyrell there.

Since it's some Tyrell's left at KL and seems D&D have structured a showdown between Cersei and Margaery a chunk of season 5 was not set up.

Natalie Dormer did have movie duties , two big films last year... maybe...?

(Just to note, I don't remember seeing Dean-Charles Chapman (Tommen) at the duel either.)

As far as the future of the Greyjoys , that puzzles me too, since Theon seems to have a continuing story, they stuck in Gemma Whelan for what seemed to me to be an audience 'gouge' about the Greyjoys. Someone left an odd comment and picture somewhere about Kingsmoot , but we have heard nothing about casting.

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

On the note of missing out on the opportunity to build up the future rivalry between Cersei and Margaery, I remember Natalie Dormer suggesting that the cat fight is amped up this season between them and I just did not see it after episode 2.

Opportunity missed, certainly. I thought it was odd that Margaery disappeared after episode 6 as well, though the movie thing may certainly have something to do with it. And she is currently filming the new Hunger Games film as well so I wonder how that will impact her for next year.

[Lord Carson]

On the note of missing out on the opportunity to build up the future rivalry between Cersei and Margaery, I remember Natalie Dormer suggesting that the cat fight is amped up this season between them and I just did not see it after episode 2.

Opportunity missed, certainly. I thought it was odd that Margaery disappeared after episode 6 as well, though the movie thing may certainly have something to do with it. And she is currently filming the new Hunger Games film as well so I wonder how that will impact her for next year.

The last two Hunger Games movies are in post, those won't affect her next year much, if at all.

[Kyoshi]

Also, say that David and Dan have no talent at all is hyperbole to the extreme. They've fleshed out characters better than Martin did on several occasions, I love the book but some of the stuff posted in this thread is absurd.

I agree with you here. Joffrey, Tywin, Bronn, Robert, Varys, even the Late Lord Walder Frey, were all much richer as TV characters in my opinion.

[Frey Pies]

Everything sucks once it becomes mainstream. D&D know they can simply aim for the cheap seats now.

Are you being sarcastic? If you're than sorry for this post :)

However, if you aren't, then I don't think you're entirely correct. In all their interviews, D&D are constantly talking about how they want this to rival Breaking Bad, to have that kind of lean-mean run that has audiences fully interested and invested throughout. I think they're very ambitious with this project.

[Queen of Whores]

Are you being sarcastic? If you're than sorry for this post :)

However, if you aren't, then I don't think you're entirely correct. In all their interviews, D&D are constantly talking about how they want this to rival Breaking Bad, to have that kind of lean-mean run that has audiences fully interested and invested throughout. I think they're very ambitious with this project.

They said they want this to rival Breaking Bad? Laaawwwllll, no way they will ever get this show to that level, and that's not me being a "purist" or whatever, even from just TV-quality standards, GoT doesn't come close to BB's level.

Just my opinion of course ;)

[Frey Pies]

They said they want this to rival Breaking Bad? Laaawwwllll, no way they will ever get this show to that level, and that's not me being a "purist" or whatever, even from just TV-quality standards, GoT doesn't come close to BB's level.

Just my opinion of course ;)

Of course it's just your opinion, like most things out there that people say.

Personally, I feel that it has already surpassed Breaking Bad with Season 4, which, of course, is just my opinion :)

[Mr Fixit]

I love love love Breaking Bad, definitely among my favourite shows, but there has been a lot of bandwagony adoration thrown its way that it didin't fully earn. There were some periods of that series that were quite lacking - parts of Season 2 and Season 4 and, most egregiously, the final two episodes of the show. Those were a real letdown.

[Queen of Whores]

I love love love Breaking Bad, definitely among my favourite shows, but there has been a lot of bandwagony adoration thrown its way that it didin't fully earn. There were some periods of that series that were quite lacking - parts of Season 2 and Season 4 and, most egregiously, the final two episodes of the show. Those were a real letdown.

I'm not a blind fanboy of Breaking Bad, trust me. I really disliked the last eight episodes, and parts of seasons 3 and 4 were a bit ridiculous, but everything other than that was pretty much flawless, more or less. The highs of the show (no pun intended) far surpassed the (increasingly very, very few) highs of Game of Thrones, and the lows of Game of Thrones are much more frequent and severe than those of Breaking Bad. That's basically how I judge how good a show is, by the ratio of highs/lows, as well as comparing those to other shows, and to me Breaking Bad just wins out in this :dunno:

[Mr Fixit]

I'm not a blind fanboy of Breaking Bad, trust me. I really disliked the last eight episodes, and parts of seasons 3 and 4 were a bit ridiculous, but everything other than that was pretty much flawless, more or less. The highs of the show (no pun intended) far surpassed the (increasingly very, very few) highs of Game of Thrones, and the lows of Game of Thrones are much more frequent and severe than those of Breaking Bad. That's basically how I judge how good a show is, by the ratio of highs/lows, as well as comparing those to other shows, and to me Breaking Bad just wins out in this :dunno:

Fair enough.

[boojam]

I love love love Breaking Bad, definitely among my favourite shows, but there has been a lot of bandwagony adoration thrown its way that it didin't fully earn. There were some periods of that series that were quite lacking - parts of Season 2 and Season 4 and, most egregiously, the final two episodes of the show. Those were a real letdown.

I liked Breaking Bad too, but I agree with you about the bandwagoning .... I watched True Detective this year too, man HBO knows how to do 'off-center' stuff, I think a hallmark of their success... There are still a few films now and then, but demographics popularity is killing going to films for me, plus the MPAA!

Speaking of the MPAA, HBO sure makes and end run on them, odd how GOT gets huge fret marks about sex and nudity (maybe violence, but violence is American Pie!)... this year True Detective had plenty of the naughty stuff. Well the premium channels do seem for ADULTS.

Speaking of that True Detective , as long as it stuck to the whacko-whacko Cohle-Hart 'detective' story , that was sterling, but there is a soap opera , kind of a kinky one, mixed in, and well , yawn,... that was just a kinky soap opera! I subtracted a couple of points for those diversions ... as long as they were 'Hannibal Lecter - ing' it up they had my attention.

I loved ROME and DEADWOOD (well the first two seasons)... ROME was half THE BACK STREETS OF ANCIENT Rome...I have never seen a proletariat ancient Rome story before , like that. Very inventive!

Showtime's The Borgias was as good as GOT , even if I had some issues with some younger actors, two bad they could not get the 4th season in... that would have been all the historical story worth telling.

I watch STARZ Da Vinci's Demons just to boggle my mind! I do get laughs out of the nuttiness of it! I mean Leonardo meets Vlad the Impaler and then later travels to the New World with Amerigo Vespucci! HAR!!

[JagLover]

Season 4 was my favourite season.

Partly this is because it is based on my favourite section of the books, with climax after climax, and partly because, in the main I think the show delivered in every area, acting, production values etc.

I rate the show as its own entity not on how faithful it is to the books.

It wasn't perfect by any means. I find virtually every scene with Dany now to be painfully dull, which is mainly due to the actress. But I think every other key character was spot on and given a chance to shine, whether that be Jon, Arya or Sansa.

If they can keep at the same level, and pan the gold out of AFFC/ADWD while discarding the rest, the show can keep on getting stronger in S5.