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Victarion Re-read Project


Mithras

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I decided to start this reread because no one did it before and more importantly, I lately saw some seriously wrong ideas about the Greyjoys, like Victarion is the most evil character in the series or Aeron is a champion of the common folk etc.



I think Victarion and Aeron chapters are better suited to be dealt in the same reread. Theon-Asha OTOH should be the subject of another thread. But of course, there are things in especially Theon chapters to discuss in the reread of the kraken nuncles.



So, I am starting this Aeron – Victarion reread. I should warn you though, I have sympathy to Victarion and it may (will) cloud my judgment.



ETA: The name of the re-read was changed to Victarion Re-read Project because we will be focusing on Victarion and the great part of this thread will be allocated to him.



The plan of this reread is chronological. We will also have an Asha chapter in the re-read at its chronological place (between Aeron I and Victarion I.)



AFfC


The Prophet (Aeron I): Aeron hears the death of Balon, return of Euron and decides to call for a kingsmoot to prevent Euron’s ascension to the Seastone Chair.


The Kraken's Daughter (Asha I): Asha comes to Ten Towers, the seat of Harlaws and speaks with the Reader about the latest news, i.e. the return of Euron and Aeron's call for kingsmoot.


The Iron Captain (Victarion I): Victarion returns from Moat Cailin to join the kingsmoot, he refuses the offer of Asha to denounce the war and make peace with the North.


The Drowned Man (Aeron II): Euron’s kingsmoot.


The Reaver (Victarion II): The ironborn take the Shields, Euron’s plan is intercepted and he decides to send Victarion to Slaver’s Bay with the Iron Fleet.



ADwD


The Dark Flame (ADwD): A red priest named Moqorro enters the scene.


The Iron Suitor (Victarion I): Victarion’s wound is festered suspiciously. Moqorro comes to heal him but that is certainly not his only purpose to join the Iron Fleet.


Victarion II: Moqorro proves to be accurate and useful. Victarion enters the Slaver’s Bay and shows Moqorro the dragonhorn for the first time.


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AFfC – The Prophet (Aeron I)



Plot Summary



The news of Balon’s death comes to Aeron. He interprets it as the work of Storm God, the eternal enemy of the Drowned God. Worse, he later learns the Euron has returned and claimed the Seastone Chair. Aeron is annoyed by it on the basis of Euron being a godless man according to him. He disregards the laws of inheritance and decides to summon a kingsmoot, which would be the first in thousands of years, in hopes of preventing Euron claiming the Seastone Chair.



Observations



1. Aeron barely hides his disdain to everything that is irreligious and not ironborn.



2. The practice of drowning is a horrible torture technique nowadays. It is probably the Rite of Passage of the ironborn culture. There is an equally violent culture among the Mountain Clans of the Vale: The Burned Men. They mutilate a part of their bodies in their Rite of Passage.



3. Balon was more than a brother to Aeron. He was half a father to him, given the age difference between them. Moreover, he was the instrument of his god; a godly ironborn as hard as iron. He has only two holds to the life: a godly king and religion.



“The king is dead,” he said, as plain as that. Four small words, yet the sea itself trembled when he uttered them.



Aeron Greyjoy had built his life upon two mighty pillars. Those four small words had knocked one down. Only the Drowned God remains to me. May he make me as strong and tireless as the sea.



4. Aeron announces that Balon is killed by the Storm God in resentment to his loyal service to the Drowned God.



“The Storm God cast him down,” the priest announced. For a thousand thousand years sea and sky had been at war. From the sea had come the ironborn, and the fish that sustained them even in the depths of winter, but storms brought only woe and grief.



5. Balon’s death is the fulfillment of the GoHH’s greendream.



6. It is interesting that the Goodbrother brothers are almost indistinguishable from each other.



Three tall sons had been born to Goodbrother’s wife late in life, after a dozen daughters, and it was said that no man could tell one son from the others. Aeron Damphair did not deign to try. Whether this be Greydon or Gormond or Gran, the priest had no time for him.



7. Aeron is bad-tempered and he is annoyed by the lack of faith in Sparrs and Goodbrothers. He attributes it to them living too far from the sea. He considers this as a weakness which is the reason of the decline of the ironborn in general.



8. Like everything from the green lands, Aeron hates the maesters too. Their ravens are the creatures of the Storm God according to him. A maester failed to heal his brother Urri, whose hand was cut when he failed to catch Aeron’s axe in finger dance.



9. Aeron considers himself as the prophet of the Drowned God and any disobedience to him is the defiance of the god itself.



10. Even before he hears the return of Euron, Aeron does not consider him as a brother that is worthy enough to rejoin his brothers in the watery halls of the Drowned God. Same is true for his “sickly idiot” half-brother Robin whose mother is from the “green lands”. Another Sweetrobin?



11. Balon was determined to see Asha succeed him but no woman ever ruled the ironborn as Aeron declared. Although Aeron worshipped his eldest brother, he noted his stubbornness in this folly.



12. Aeron is plagued by bad dreams and uncomfortable sleep. “The scream of the rusted hinge” will come quite often. There is something sinister about Euron and their childhood.



Analysis



It is the first time in ASOIAF saga that we see POV chapters being named different than the POV character’s name, starting with The Prophet.



The scream of the rusted iron hinges



Let us start with most disturbing topic about Aeron.



Aeron closed his eyes and said a silent prayer, and after a while began to drowse in the saddle.


The sound came softly, the scream of a rusted hinge. “Urri,” he muttered, and woke, fearful. There is no hinge here, no door, no Urri.



Aeron had drowned and been reborn from the sea, the god’s own prophet. No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could . . . nor memories, the bones of the soul. The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hinge. Euron has come again. It did not matter. He was the Damphair priest, beloved of the god.



Euron molested his brothers Urri and Aeron when they were young. The sound of the rusted iron hinge acts like a trigger to him. This deep trauma causes him to seek signs of strength to hide his feeling of weakness and insecurity. After Urri’s death, he gave himself to manly things like drinking, whoring, gambling etc. He also used his gift of pissing further and longer than any man as a symbol of manly strength.



Aeron has an obsession about weakness. He thinks that his old self was a weak man but after his drowning, he rose again harder and stronger. Those who know psychology better than me can comment more on this. Finally, Aeron found the strength he was seeking in religion. Such a sharp transformation of character is not a sign of good mental condition.



Aeron’s transformation



Aeron’s transformation is best seen when Theon meets him for the first time after 10 years as the hostage of Starks in ACoK.



The priest’s manner was chilly, most unlike the man Theon remembered. Aeron Greyjoy had been the most amiable of his uncles, feckless and quick to laugh, fond of songs, ale, and women.



Gods, he [Aeron] has grown grim, Theon thought.



“And what of you, Uncle?” Theon asked. “You were no priest when I was taken from Pyke. I remember how you would sing the old reaving songs standing on the table with a horn of ale in hand.”


“Young I was, and vain,” Aeron Greyjoy said, “but the sea washed my follies and my vanities away. That man drowned, nephew. His lungs filled with seawater, and the fish ate the scales off his eyes. When I rose again, I saw clearly.”


He is as mad as he is sour. Theon had liked what he remembered of the old Aeron Greyjoy.



New Aeron is cold, bitter, unyielding, insensitive and mad. He strikes us as a nasty piece of work in Theon’s chapters but now we start to understand why.



Ironborn culture



We are deeply immersed into the ironborn culture and the religion of the Drowned God for the first time in the series. Theon in ACoK was a stranger to them as he was more Stark than an ironborn (and a good thing IMO).



We slowly begin to see that the life on the Iron Islands is very hard. They are poor and weak but still act like proud conquerors and raiders of the old. Aeron attributes this decadence to the lack of faith in the Drowned God.



According to Aeron, the ironborn should heed the commands of the Drowned God seriously and become the raiders their forebears were and reinstall the Old Way. This is what Balon is trying to do and it is called Balon’s Quest in the text.



Balon was a classical Greyjoy. He started to be a bloodthirsty pirate at the age of 12 and Aeron recalls that as something good.



In Pyke, it would seem, the old wars were still being fought. That ought not surprise him. The Iron Islands lived in the past; the present was too hard and bitter to be borne. Besides, his father and uncles were old, and the old lords were like that; they took their dusty feuds to the grave, forgetting nothing and forgiving less.



When Theon came to Pyke as a stranger, he correctly diagnosed the problem. The Old Way is an old done tradition but majority of the ironborn are too dumb to realize that and the rest prefer to remain blind.



Urri’s death



It was Aeron’s axe that sheared Urri’s fingers while they were playing finger dance. The maester was guilty of trying to save the fingers but none of them thought why the hell the ironborn insist on playing such a dangerous and ridiculous game. Aeron feels absolutely no guilt of wounding his brother and causing his death. Someone really needs to beat the sense into their heads.



No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair



One word; hypocrisy.



Aeron prefers to call it the will of the Drowned God but his objection to Euron is completely based on his childhood traumas and molestation by him. I think his kingsmoot was really successful because he was looking for the strongest man to raid and reave the green lands and the best man for the job was selected by his kingsmoot.



Euron is one of the most bloodthirsty and merciless pirates ever set sail. As Euron will claim later, he has served their bloodthirsty god well. Therefore, Euron is not a godless man as Aeron claims.



Goodbrothers



The three indistinguishable Goodbrothers mirror Balon, Euron and Aeron, who follow the Old Way as the servants of the Drowned God.



Balon won quick victories but he lost his prizes as quickly as he won them.



His successor Euron is the same. Within a short time, he created chaos in the Reach but his great success will turn into great failure shortly.



I think after Euron’s death, Aeron will claim the Seastone Chair and he will try to continue Balon’s Quest. But his reign will end with the Hammer of the Waters sent by Bran on Pyke. After that, the ironborn will come to senses and pay attention to Bran’s messenger (none other than Theon).



Pursuing Balon’s Quest will cause only misery and suffering to the ironborn. It is like the Doom of Mandos on the Noldor from Silmarillion. We will see in the future chapters that the futility of the Old Way will be pronounced by The Reader. How ironic.



Storm God vs. Drowned God



For a thousand thousand years sea and sky had been at war. From the sea had come the ironborn, and the fish that sustained them even in the depths of winter, but storms brought only woe and grief.



I think the cult of the Drowned God is highly twisted and evil. Normally, storm gods are praised for bringing the rain because it causes fertility.



The ironborn relied on raiding for thousands of years in which they antagonized the Storm God because no sailor prays for the storms.



My take on this messing up is that the Iron Islands were once united with the mainland. There used to grow weirwood trees and the colossal remnants of them are now thought to be ribs of a nonexistent dragon I think by that time, the humans did not even come to Westeros. After an internal struggle within possibly different cultures of CotF, I think the Iron Islands were separated from the mainland with a Hammer of Waters. and they lost most of their fertile soil in the process.


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Love the analysis, Paper Weaver. Are you doing Asha's as well? I think her POV matters too. Agreed on Aeron's past and current state. He doesn't need the Drowned God but therapy. Aeron does hate everything from the green lands, and can be described as xenophobic. He is beset with a number of prejudices, including misogyny, to the point that when asked wrt Balon's wishes on who should succeed him, Aeron doesn't mention that, but tries to put his preferred candidate on the Seastone Chair, Victarion, the useful stooge.



Women were made to fight their battles in the birthing bed



Didn't Asha lead a successful capture of Deepwood Motte and also go went reaving in the Stepstones? He doesn't let the facts bother him.



His Past



Balon shows his irrational, brutal tendencies with what happened to the maester. Aeron had been glad when she died in childbirth, blaming her for Urri's death to avoid blaming himself.



proving that krakens can piss farther and longer than lions, boars, or chickens.



He had a pissing contest with a Crakehall, a Swyft and a Lannister, likely Gerion.



That was when the Damphair realized that three horsemen had joined his drowned men on the pebbled shore.



And Damphair makes four. Things do not look good for the Iron Isles with this image.



Better to be scorned by Balon the Brave than beloved of Euron Crow's Eye.



I was the least of them, as weak and frightened as a girl



Beloved of Euron? I think Euron did rape his beloved brother, Aeron. Also, Aeron calling himself a weak, frightened girl could also point to this.



The Goodbrothers and Change



It seems their nomial tradition is names beginning with "G." They control the largest island of the Iron Isles, and control the iron mine in Harridan Hills. Lord Gorold seems to hold his maester in regard, even not letting Aeron send him away. We will later see him conversing with the Reader, and agreeing that attacking the Shields was a bad idea. I think he is one of the more progressive Ironborn like the Reader who doesn't seem to carry the xenophobia towards the mainland that most Greyjoys have.



Merlyn was a bald round fleshy man who styled himself "Lord" in the manner of the green lands, and dressed in furs and velvets.



With Merlyn, Goodbrother and the Reader, we see glimpses of an Iron Islands that is changing, and embracing some of the things from the greenlands.



We are born from the sea, and to the sea we shall return.



I don't doubt that.



I was not made to sit upon the Seastone Chair . . . no more than Euron Crow's Eye.



Euron does sit the Seastone Chair, and I think Damphair will too. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I think he would name himself king if both his brothers and Asha are dead along with knowing what happened to Theon. The alternative would be the extinction of House Greyjoy.

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Very interesting analysis, Paper Waver.



I may be completely mistaken, but my impression was, when I read this chapter, that Aeron "only" suppressed his guilt over Urri, blaming someone else, and he has never learned to deal with this unacknowledged feeling, which he has carried all these years ("drowned" deep down somewhere).



He was severely traumatized by one brother and killed another one, and no one ever found anything wrong with either. This is a culture revelling in violence.



Reading Theon's POV when he returned home, I felt a bit sorry for him being brought up in a place where he did not belong and apparently having lost his original home without being able to really identify with the new one. This chapter absolutely brings it home to the reader what a wonderful chance he had growing up in Winterfell. (It is definitely better to be a hostage in Winterfell than a son in the Greyjoy family.).



I look forward to seeing how this discussion unfolds.


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Nice analysis!



I only have a few things to add in relation to Aeron and his relationship with The Drowned God. I think it's interesting that Aeron has never lost someone to the drowning.





Another one returned. It was a sign of the Drowned God's favor, men said. Every other priest lost a man from time to time, even Tarle the Thrice-Drowned, who had once been thought so holy that he was picked to crown a king. But never Aeron Greyjoy. He was the Damphair, who had seen the god's own watery halls and returned to tell of it.





Aeron, I believe, is a very proud man when it comes to his relationship with the Drowned God. This opening chapter doesn't even call him "Aeron" but rather "The Prophet;" he is known throughout the Iron Islands as "The Damphair." His identity is wrapped up in being the Drowned God's chosen, not Aeron Greyjoy. Aeron Greyjoy was the boy that drowned, someone who was weak and abused and tried to overcome that through more "manly" practices.



If we accept that in ASOIAF there are those who do seem to have some special relationship with a force that is outside of us (call it whatever you will) Aeron seems to have been chosen to be the favorite of the Drowned God. (Though, side note: I've often wondered what Aeron would make of Patchface, who also drowned and lived to tell the tale, though I suppose the fool did not rise harder and stronger). The fact that Aeron is even holier than a man chosen to crown a king, could be a bit of foreshadowing that Aeron himself will eventually be crowned King.



Also, I think Aeron views his relationship with the Drowned God in opposition to his relationship with Euron. If we accept that Euron was sexually abusing his brother (which I agree is likely), then Euron robbed Aeron of power, in particular the power of his own body. The Drowned God, in Aeron's mind, gave him back that power. The waves that drowned him also washed away his past life, his past weakness (that he could not defend himself against Euron) and now Aeron will rob Euron of political power over men, even though following the culture of the Iron Island, Paper Waver is right, Euron is the best man for the job.



While Euron robbed Aeron of the power over his own body, now Aeron gives life and power back to men who are held under the waters and asked to submit. We only see Aeron drown one man in this opening chapter (though there were other men before), someone who is fighting tooth and nail to NOT submit, but rather thrashing about to the point where Aeron must hold him under forcibly. It's a bit of a reverse from Aeron as a boy. Where Euron probably held Aeron down and forced himself upon the boy, now Aeron sometimes must hold lads down in order to deliver them to the Drowned God and make them harder and stronger. Euron robs, but Aeron saves.


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He was severely traumatized by one brother and killed another one, and no one ever found anything wrong with either. This is a culture revelling in violence.

Well, I think Pyke reflects the state of the family that dwelled within akin to "The House of Usher." Pyke is a bunch of different keeps and towers on different stacks separate from one another and connected only by thin supports such as rope bridges just as House Greyjoy is made up of individuals each working for their own ends, and loyalty/ties to one another being very thin.

Balon died on a rope bridge when the FM Euron hired severed it, just as Euron severed his connection to Balon.

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Lots of good points. Thank you guys.



Fire Eater, now that you mention it, I will post Kraken’s Daughter next. I thought I might refer to that chapter like Theon’s chapters in ACoK but it is very much related to our discussion and there are too many things to talk about in that chapter. So, it deserves its own analysis.



Aeron’s misogyny is one of his bad sides but the entire ironborn culture is like that. Though I would have it otherwise, I think he is right about that Asha would not have a chance to rule the Iron Islands. Even the Reader will tell her that much.



I agree that Goodbrothers are among the reasonable ironborn. If there will be a change, they will be on the demanding side. Aeron is pissed by their reluctance to soil themselves in seawater, their farce of a drowning when they were babes, their dependence on the maesters etc. but Aeron represents the twisted perspective here.



The religion of the Drowned God is not simply religion, it is a life style, or even a political regime. From this perspective, it is unlike any other religion in the series. When the Old Way is burned to crisps by Aegon, the religion of the Drowned God was sentenced to extinction. But it is hard to give up the religious bigotry. Just like the Iron Islands lives in the past, the religion of the Drowned God belnogs to the past. If the Old Way is abandoned completely (as it must be done), much of the religion of the Drowned God will be redundant.



By the way, I love your comparison of Pyke and the Greyjoys. When Theon returns to Pyke, he is taken to the Bloody Keep to his dismay.



Whenever he’d imagined his homecoming, he had always pictured himself returning to the snug bedchamber in the Sea Tower, where he’d slept as a child. Instead the old woman led him to the Bloody Keep. The halls here were larger and better furnished, if no less cold nor damp. Theon was given a suite of chilly rooms with ceilings so high that they were lost in gloom. He might have been more impressed if he had not known that these were the very chambers that had given the Bloody Keep its name. A thousand years before, the sons of the River King had been slaughtered here, hacked to bits in their beds so that pieces of their bodies might be sent back to their father on the mainland.


But Greyjoys were not murdered in Pyke except once in a great while by their brothers, and his brothers were both dead.



Balon considers Theon as a man of the green lands. What message is Theon supposed to get from being sent to the Bloody Keep where the sons of the River King had been slaughtered (probably as a breaking of guest right)? We also learn that kinslaying is not completely unheard for Greyjoys and ambitious uncles pose a great threat to weak nephews.



Julia H.



Yes, Theon’s return to home was pathetic, as everything followed afterwards in his chapters. It is obvious that Theon has become more Stark than ironborn (he has slips like “gods” in his mind and he referred to the Drowned God as his [Aeron’s] god etc.). That is why he is constantly mocked and humiliated in Pyke by the ironborn. As a result, he decided to earn their respect by taking Winterfell.



BearQueen87



Those who had suffered great abuse as a child try to do the same thing to the others, which keeps going on from generation to generation as a vicious circle. Aeron suffered great horrors when he was a boy. Now, he is drowning boys in the sea. If you look carefully at the reactions of the last boy, he is going through a great terror and his revival was no better. It is a torture, being pressed face down to the sea and not given a brake. So, I think instead of giving the boys strength, Aeron is carrying on the vicious circle by abusing weaker boys. Being a prophet gives him the perfect excuse to do so. I think in today’s world, Aeron would be a pedophiliac serial killer.



Victarion



Nine sons had been born from the loins of Quellon Greyjoy, and Victarion was the strongest of them, a bull of a man, fearless and dutiful. And therein lies our danger. A younger brother owes obedience to an elder, and Victarion was not a man to sail against tradition. He has no love for Euron, though. Not since the woman died.



“My uncles…” Theon’s claim took precedence over those of his father’s three brothers, but the woman had touched on a sore point nonetheless. In the islands it was scarce unheard of for a strong, ambitious uncle to dispossess a weak nephew of his rights, and usually murder him in the bargain. But I am not weak, Theon told himself, and I mean to be stronger yet by the time my father dies. “My uncles pose no threat to me,” he declared. “Aeron is drunk on seawater and sanctity. He lives only for his god—”


His god? Not yours?”


“Mine as well. What is dead can never die.” He smiled thinly. “If I make pious noises as required, Damphair will give me no trouble. And my uncle Victarion—”


“Lord Captain of the Iron Fleet, and a fearsome warrior. I have heard them sing of him in the alehouses.”


“During my lord father’s rebellion, he sailed into Lannisport with my uncle Euron and burned the Lannister fleet where it lay at anchor,” Theon recalled. “The plan was Euron’s, though. Victarion is like some great grey bullock, strong and tireless and dutiful, but not like to win any races. No doubt, he’ll serve me as loyally as he has served my lord father. He has neither the wits nor the ambition to plot betrayal.”



We learn more about kraken nuncles in this chapter, all of which are in accordance with Theon chapters of ACoK. We already discussed the new Aeron as Theon perceived. We talked about Euron and Balon enough for this chapter, which brings us to Victarion.



Though we met Victarion very briefly so far in ACoK, he is said to be the strongest Greyjoy man but lacks the cunning to plot. He also seems to care the tradition that may (will) prevent him going against the elder brother.



There is something between Euron and Victarion about the death of a woman, which will be revealed later.



Flesh and Bones



Nine sons were born from the loins of Quellon Greyjoy, and I was the least of them, as weak and frightened as a girl. But no longer. That man is drowned, and the god has made me strong. The cold salt sea surrounded him, embraced him, reached down through his weak man’s flesh and touched his bones. Bones, he thought. The bones of the soul. Balon’s bones, and Urri’s. The truth is in our bones, for flesh decays and bone endures. And on the hill of Nagga, the bones of the Grey King’s Hall . . .



We know from Mel that bones remember and they are powerful magical items. I am not sure what to make from the quote above. There is also the famous saying dry as bone, which is also used in one of Patchface’s prophecies.



From Aeron’s POV, perhaps flesh represents weakness, as flesh is also used for sexual desires.



Young I was, and vain,” Aeron Greyjoy said, “but the sea washed my follies and my vanities away. That man drowned, nephew. His lungs filled with seawater, and the fish ate the scales off his eyes. When I rose again, I saw clearly.”



This “rebirth” of Aeron from “the weak thing he was” is very similar to what happened to Dany in AGoT.



Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.


And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity.



Dany grew stronger after her flesh was burned away by dragon flame in her dream.



I wonder if there are other examples of such riddance of burdens to the soul through a painful process using prime elements.


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Thanks for this Paper Weaver, very detailed and well referenced.

What are your thoughts on the theory that rather than molesting Aeron and Urri, Euron may have warged them?


I've noticed a lot of misconceptions regarding drowning in the community. It's often mistakenly said that all Ironborn are drowned at birth yet the Prophet chapter shows us that children are simply baptized in the Christian form of water being pored over the head. Its only priests who are truly drowned and reborn again.

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What are your thoughts on the theory that rather than molesting Aeron and Urri, Euron may have warged them?

I don't think Euron is a skinchanger. He molested them and there will be other evidences for this in the future chapters.

I've noticed a lot of misconceptions regarding drowning in the community. It's often mistakenly said that all Ironborn are drowned at birth yet the Prophet chapter shows us that children are simply baptized in the Christian form of water being pored over the head. Its only priests who are truly drowned and reborn again.

Those who are baptized at infancy are considered weak and lacking faith by Aeron. The ironborn should be drowned in adolescence or in adulthood according to him and it must be a real drowning by filling the seawater into the lungs.

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Hey, nice topic, thanks. I've been thinking about Victarion a good bit lately after a re-read of aDwD. I was thinking the exact same thing, that he is very misunderstood. He's perhaps the most honorable living member of house Greyjoy. I just started a thread about him and his dragon-binding horn and red priest. We know he's to arrive in Meereen as the battle there gets going. I can't say for sure, but I believe House Greyjoy (in the north and south of the world) is about to do some big things. . .


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Keep it up.



Currently re-reading a Feast for Crows and just finished Victarion II.



At your point of hypocrisy:


in the pov of Aeron it will stay that way, if only because Euron has wizards & warlocks. Plus Euron is openly refering to the storm god. And asking for aid.





Victarion, minus his battle blood-lust, does remind me of Eddard Stark in a way. Both keeping very close to their vows, rules and honour.

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Well, I think Pyke reflects the state of the family that dwelled within akin to "The House of Usher." Pyke is a bunch of different keeps and towers on different stacks separate from one another and connected only by thin supports such as rope bridges just as House Greyjoy is made up of individuals each working for their own ends, and loyalty/ties to one another being very thin.

Balon died on a rope bridge when the FM Euron hired severed it, just as Euron severed his connection to Balon.

I really like this - the structure of the home mirroring the relationships within the family. Great catch.

Those who had suffered great abuse as a child try to do the same thing to the others, which keeps going on from generation to generation as a vicious circle. Aeron suffered great horrors when he was a boy. Now, he is drowning boys in the sea. If you look carefully at the reactions of the last boy, he is going through a great terror and his revival was no better. It is a torture, being pressed face down to the sea and not given a brake. So, I think instead of giving the boys strength, Aeron is carrying on the vicious circle by abusing weaker boys. Being a prophet gives him the perfect excuse to do so. I think in today’s world, Aeron would be a pedophiliac serial killer.

Yes, I agree that Aeron is passing on the torture he suffered as a child to others. At the same time, doing it in the name of the Drowned God allows him to have this "holier-than-though" attitude towards Euron, as Aeron is torturing people for an "honourable" reason. (Euron would probably never bother to find a moral excuse for anything he does.)

However, Aeron is also proud that he has never lost a man yet. I think that is an aspect that relates to his memory of Urri's death (besides making him a better priest than others). Aeron hurt Urri and Urri died. Now Aeron is hurting lots of young men and they don't die. Perhaps every successful return helps him deny that he is responsible for Urri's death by confirming that he is not the kind of person who "loses" his people.

"Drowning men" is Aeron's (horrible) way of dealing with both childhood traumas (being a victim of violence by one brother and causing another brother's death).

Aeron and Euron are quite similar in some ways. Both are sadistic, only Eruon is a hedonistic sadist while Aeron is an ascetic one. I grant that Victarion is a better man than either of these two (but he still scares me).

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AFfC – The Kraken’s Daughter (Asha I)



Plot Summary



Asha returns to Ten Towers where Rodrik Harlaw (aka the Reader) has called his bannermen in the name of Asha. She is not satisfied with the number of her supporters. Asha and Rodrik have a long conversation. Asha decides to go to Old Wyk to Aeron’s kingsmoot.



Observations



1. This is a depressing chapter.



“Lady Glover and the children should not want for wood nor warmth. Put them in some tower, not the dungeons. The babe is sick.”


“Babes are often sick. Most die, and folks are sorry.”



There are many things like this quote adding to the general gloomy mood of the chapter.



2. Asha sees that her supporters are too few by far. Only Harlaw’s own bannermen has come and there is the Botleys, who have a strong reason to hate Euron because he had Lord Sawane Botley drowned when he defied his claim in Pyke.



She did not doubt their devotion, but even ironborn will hesitate to give their lives for a cause that’s plainly lost.



This might be a sign that Asha is slowly realizing that hers is a lost cause. She hears the kingsmoot from the Reader and that the ironborn are flocking to Old Wyk.



3. The Reader has a steward called Three-tooth. She served him since she was known as Twelve-tooth. Although she is called three-tooth now, she had only a single tooth left. Why are her teeth being counted like she was a horse bought in the market?



4.


“And my lady mother?”


“Abed,” said Three-Tooth, “in the Widow’s Tower.”


Aye, where else?



The husband of Gwynesse Harlaw died in the Battle of Fair Isle. The widow’s tower is named after her. There is a certain irony that Balon’s own wife (now a widow) is currently staying in the tower that was named for the widow he created in his first rebellion.



5. Asha’s mother is in great pain because of worrying for her last son. Now Asha has to bring the news of Theon’s death (as far as she knows) to her. That might kill her or drive her to madness. Asha does not feel strong enough to speak to her mother before she rests and clears her head.



6. Ten Towers also resemble Pyke in terms of what Fire Eater suggested. The towers do not look like each other as the members of House Harlaw. Old Lord Theomore, who raised the Ten Towers, had six wives of widely changing features and personalities. As for the current Harlaws, we have The Reader, The Knight and a hump back. They have different personal sigils.



7. The Reader. He is the man.



8. The books mentioned in the chapter are Book of Lost Books by Marwyn, a septon’s discourse on Maegor the Cruel’s war against the Poor Fellows, Haereg’s History of the Ironborn, Maester Denestan’s Questions (a critical analysis of the known ironborn history).



9.


“Was my father murdered?”


“So your mother believes.”


There were times when she would gladly have murdered him herself, she thought.



It is a pity she didn’t. I would not blame her if she did.



Analysis



Asha’s Mood



As I said once, this is a depressing chapter and from this moment on, Asha will always be depressed. Asha of ACoK was a different person.



Asha leapt to her feet. “Rolfe, here,” she shouted down at one of the finger dancers, holding up a hand. He saw her, spun, and suddenly an axe came flying from his hand, the blade gleaming as it tumbled end over end through the torchlight. Theon had time for a choked gasp before Asha snatched the axe from the air and slammed it down into the table, splitting his trencher in two and splattering his mantle with drippings. “There’s my lord husband.” His sister reached down inside her gown and drew a dirk from between her breasts. “And here’s my sweet suckling babe.”


He could not imagine how he looked at that moment, but suddenly Theon Greyjoy realized that the Great Hall was ringing with laughter, all of it at him. Even his father was smiling, gods be damned, and his uncle Victarion chuckled aloud. The best response he could summon was a queasy grin. We shall see who is laughing when all this is done, bitch.



She was teasing with Theon, playing him a fool, enjoying her position as the beloved heir of her father. Lots of lords and raiders were there, respecting her.



However, things have changed.



Balon is dead. Euron has returned and it is likely that he murdered Balon. She has few followers against Euron. As we discussed before, kinslaying is not completely unheard for Greyjoys and ambitious uncles pose great danger to weak nephews. This is exactly what is happening to Asha.



However, Aeron’s kingsmoot gave her some hope and she thought she might win the kingsmoot although the Reader told her repeatedly that she won’t.



Balon’s Blindness vs. Asha’s Blindness



Asha has Balon’s selective blindness.



Balon had shaken his head in despair when he heard what Aeron had to tell him of his last remaining son. “The wolves have made a weakling of him, as I feared,” the king had said. “I pray god that they killed him, so he cannot stand in Asha’s way.” That was Balon’s blindness; he saw himself in his wild, headstrong daughter, and believed she could succeed him. He was wrong in that, and Aeron tried to tell him so. “No woman will ever rule the ironborn, not even a woman such as Asha,” he insisted, but Balon could be deaf to things he did not wish to hear.



Asha had loved her father, but she did not delude herself. Balon had been blind in some respects.



Both the Damphair and Asha called Balon blind but Asha was meaning his mad quest for reviving the Old Way whereas Aeron was referring to his insistence on making Asha his successor. Lord Rodrik told Asha the same thing, i.e. no woman can rule the ironborn but Asha prefers to go blind to his counsel.



The Reader’s Latest Studies



Lord Rodrik also has been reading a septon’s discourse on Maegor the Cruel’s war against the Poor Fellows. This is a popular theme in AFfC too. Rodrik was reading this book before the High Sparrow came to KL. So, he was somehow aware of this new sparrow movement in Riverlands and checking his archive to understand what is going on.



Lord Rodrik was also reading the Book of Lost Books by Marwyn when Asha came. We see from the Prologue of AFfC that Oldtown was very receptive to what the hell is going on in the Far East. Dragons, slave revolts and all sorts of things out there were being discussed at the inns. So, Marwyn’s book is somehow related to this new age of wonders and Lord Rodrik was interested in that too.



Lord Rodrik was also re-reading the ironborn history as a result of Aeron’s Kingsmoot. He looks like a fellow brother from the Moments of Foreshadowing threads. He spoke of a theory that Euron Greyjoy sounds like Urron Greyiron who had descended on the kingsmoot with his axemen to slay the entire participants, which resulted in his dynasty of Iron Kings for a thousand years. I think he was not completely wrong. Euron did win the kingsmoot.



The Wit and Wisdom of Rodrik Harlaw



“Archmaester Rigney once wrote that history is a wheel, for the nature of man is fundamentally unchanging. What has happened before will perforce happen again, he said.”



This GRRM believes too because he is pulling parallels from the past characters all the time.



“This dream of kingship is a madness in our blood. I told your father so the first time he rose, and it is more true now than it was then. It’s land we need, not crowns. With Stannis Baratheon and Tywin Lannister contending for the Iron Throne, we have a rare chance to improve our lot. Let us take one side or the other, help them to victory with our fleets, and claim the lands we need from a grateful king.”


“That might be worth some thought, once I sit the Seastone Chair,” said Asha.


Her uncle sighed. “You will not want to hear this, Asha, but you will not be chosen. No woman has ever ruled the ironborn.”



“Your father had more courage than sense. The Old Way served the isles well when we were one small kingdom amongst many, but Aegon’s Conquest put an end to that. Balon refused to see what was plain before him. The Old Way died with Black Harren and his sons.”



All true. Old Way is dead. The ironborn need lands and peace and trade.



“My cousins do me fealty, and in war I should command their swords and sails. In kingsmoot, though . . .” Lord Rodrik shook his head. “Beneath the bones of Nagga every captain stands as equal. Some may shout your name, I do not doubt it. But not enough. And when the shouts ring out for Victarion or the Crow’s Eye, some of those now drinking in my hall will join the rest. I say again, do not sail into this storm. Your fight is hopeless.”


“No fight is hopeless till it has been fought.”



Only fools engage in a fight they cannot win.



“I prefer my history dead. Dead history is writ in ink, the living sort in blood.”


“Do you want to die old and craven in your bed?”


“How else? Though not till I’m done reading.”



Words of wisdom.



Asha and Tris



I can’t help but feel sorry for Tris. Do you also think Asha was mean to him? We will see that Qarl is Asha’s lover but still… I felt similarly sorry for the daughter of the captain of Myraham when Theon acted like a total douche and broke her heart.



Asha’s Dirk



It is certainly a phallic object.



Foreshadowing



Even now, it was hard to credit that frail, sickly Lady Alannys had outlived her husband Lord Balon, who had seemed so hard and strong. When Asha had sailed away to war, she had done so with a heavy heart, fearing that her mother might well die before she could return. Not once had she thought that her father might perish instead. The Drowned God plays savage japes upon us all, but men are crueler still. A sudden storm and a broken rope had sent Balon Greyjoy to his death. Or so they claim.



“How is she [Alannys]?”


“Stronger. She may yet outlive us all. She will certainly outlive you, if you persist in this folly.”



I think sickly and frail Theon will outlive the headstrong daughter of Balon.



“It’s my father’s seat I want, not yours. Those scythes of yours look perilous. One could fall and slice my head off. No, I’ll sit the Seastone Chair.”


“Then you are just another crow, screaming for carrion.”



Rodrik offered Asha to declare her his heir if she would not go to the Kingsmoot and press her claim. Asha didn’t accept it. Now we see where that decision brought her. Rodrik called Asha a crow. Weeper will lop the heads of all the crows he will capture after he takes Shadow Tower, including Asha.


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AFfC – The Kraken’s Daughter (Asha I)

(snip)

Excellent job, once again. A few things

1) The Kraken's Daughter. I did a quick scan over Asha's POV's in AFFC and ADWD. She's never given chapter titles that are her actual name. She's The Krakens Daughter, The Wayward Bride, The King's Prize, The Sacrifice. We know that GRRM likes to play with the concept of identity, and most often when a character is given a chapter title other than what their given name is, they are either 1) in hiding or 2) their previous identity has undergone some sort of transformation that leaves them a a new person. Sansa/Alyanne; Theon/Reek; Arya/take-your-pick-here. Yet here's Asha who is 1) not in hiding--in fact, coming back to claim what she feels as her birthright and 2) knows who she is, in fact the chapter title is supposed to be a celebration of her identity. The chapter title in this case is a loud declaration: the last living child of Balon Greyjoy, and heir to the Iron Islands (huzzah!).

And it's extra depressing that Asha comes with this loud declaration of positive identity, only to be thwarted by her uncles. It reminds me of Theon's POV in aCoK wherein he returns home only to find a luke warm welcome because he too has been supplanted by another. It might also speak to the way women are treated on the Iron Islands; their identity is limited, even though the first identity we have for her is supposed to be powerful.

Sidenote outside of Asha, but the Uncles are never given their names either. EXCEPT Vic after he's far away from the Iron Islands and in the company of the Red Priest. I don't know if it's significant but it's worth mentioning.

2) I love the Reader. More of him. If the Iron Islanders ever accept that the Old Way is lost, they need to turn to him.

3) Tris and Asha: I do feel bad for Tris here. And her spurning of him because she is his Queen, not his lady, goes back to Asha's selective blindness that you pointed out.

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Nice. :D



I guess the titles in Asha's chapters are not her name because as a woman, she herself doesn't represent too much, even for Westeros standards. The only chance Asha has is being "the kraken's daughter", unlike, for example, Cersei, who at least can rule as lady of Casterly Rock. And the fact that's the name of the chapter means that deep inside, she knows she has no chance.


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Another good job, Paper Weaver. Keep them coming.

The Reader

The Reader, Rodrik Harlaw, is unique in his love of books compared to the anti-intellectualism of the Iron Isles. He is one of the few Ironborn who opposed Balon's ideas, and he doesn't want war. He knows the costs of war when he lost both his sons and left with widowed, half-mad sister.

It's land we need not crowns. With Stannis Baratheon and Tywin Lannister contending for the Iron Throne, we have a rare chance to improve our lot. Let us take one side or the other, help them to victory with our fleets, and claim the lands we need from a grateful king.

To add to what Paper Weaver said, his suggestion to Asha about joining with Stannis or the Lannisters, and help them in exchange for land shows that although he is not a warrior, he is a shrewd politician. His ideas for the improvement of the Ironborn's lot is not a return to the Old Way, but land for the Ironborn to work, constructive ideas instead of destructive.

One thing I would like to add about House Harlaw is its sigil: the scythe. The scythe is often seen as a weapon wielded by Death/the Grim Reaper in popular culture, but it is actually a farming tool used for harvesting grain. This fits with the Reader's suggestion, and his constructive ideas compared to House Greyjoy's "We Do Not Sow." I think Rodrik would fit the title "Lord Reaper" than any of the Greyjoys. Harlaw is the most populous and most prosperous of the Iron Isles, likely having the most arable land, and its shaggy ponies (possibly akin to the Shetland Ponies) are used throughout the Iron Isles and are likely a good source of income. Harlaw derives much of its wealth from trade and agriculture.

On side note, I think Alannys may have named her firstborn son and Theon's older brother for him, Rodrik.

Asha's Choice

"Asha, my two tall sons fed the crabs on Fair Isle. I am not like to wed again. Stay, and I shall name you heir to the Ten Towers. Be content with that."

Rodrik offers an alternative for a peaceful and secure life, but Asha turns it down to go for the kingsmoot. This is a pattern we start to see, she turns down alternatives for a peaceful life to chase after an unlikely goal that only ends up getting her deeper into the hole. Later in ADwD, Tristifer offers to her to leave Deepwood Motte and live a life as a trader, but she turns it down for her desperate, impossible plan to create her own independent kingdom. She ends up losing her entire force except for seven men, and captured. Although, to be fair she isn't given enough time to make that decision as it was the same night Stannis made his assault. She is married to her axe with a dirk as her babe, pointing towards her preference for battle.

I think this is where I disagree with Paper Weaver, Asha may be offered to ride with Theon to the Wall away from the fighting, but given her history she always goes to where the action is rather than peaceful alternatives, and I think she will instead choose to stay and fight in the Battle of Ice. Of course, this decision results in her getting killed when she volunteers to be on the wooded island with the weirwoods to draw the Freys, the most dangerous job in the battle. A few make it to the isle, and her blood is spilled against the weirwood.

I think Asha's story may be a subversion of the character in stories who faces impossible odds in a quest with other characters trying to convince him/her away, but persists regardless.

"Stronger, She may outlive us all. She will certainly outlive you if you persist in this folly."

"If you go, the rest of your life may be too short for wondering."

I think the Reader will prove to be right about that. He has proven to be right about many things, so I will just make the assumption that he's usually always right.

As for Tristifer Botely, I think he is the Steve Urkel of the Iron Isles. He suffers from one-itis, and should take after his sigil and remember there are plenty of fish in the sea. He seems like a nice boy, naive, but not stupid as demonstrated in ADwD. He tells Asha that they have to go as soon as they hear of the fall of Moat Cailin, and shoots down her reasons for staying.

I wonder how he will be after Asha is killed in battle, and he survives. He will no doubt be said, but I think it would the moment he goes from a boy to a man.


9.

“Was my father murdered?”

“So your mother believes.”

There were times when she would gladly have murdered him herself, she thought.

It is a pity she didn’t. I would not blame her if she did.


Poor Alannys, she didn't deserve what befell her. You would think after what happened to Balon's sons and his wife after he first rose up he would have learned his lesson, but as the saying goes: you can't fix stupid.

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Fire Eater, I fully agree that Asha is being given chances to retire from her doomed quest but she denies them all the time. This will eventually lead her to a dead end where she can dance no more. In this sense, she is like Balon with teats.



Greyjoy Chapter Titles



Separating Theon from the others (because he is not fully an ironborn), all the chapters of Aeron, Asha and Victarion are given titles other than their character names. The only exception is the final chapter of Victarion in which he aligns himself with the Red Priest who occasionally speaks blasphemy against the Drowned God. We will discuss that more detailed later but I think that point is where Victarion is starting to separate himself from the ironborn culture.



Hence, the ironborn do not seem to assume their own names as POV titles as long as they hold onto the ironborn culture. I think this may be interpreted as it is very hard to exist as a person with a name in a harsh culture like the ironborn. In fact, we see that many of the ironborn go with sobriquets. Barber Nute, Andrik the Unsmiling, Dagmer Cleftjaw, The Knight, Eric Anvilbreaker, Crow’s Eye, Lord Captain, Tarle the Thrice-Drowned, Damphair, Red Kraken and many others.



Paying the iron price applies to the sobriquets as well. A man should earn his own name in the Iron Islands.



Interestingly, some of the old kings of winter have similar badass sobriquets as well like Brandon Ice-Eyes, Theon the Hungry Wolf etc.



House Codd



Their sigil is a codfish and their motto is “Though All Men Do Despise Us”. They look like the Freys of Iron Islands. They are currently loyal to Euron.


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Asha has Balon’s selective blindness.

Balon had shaken his head in despair when he heard what Aeron had to tell him of his last remaining son. “The wolves have made a weakling of him, as I feared,” the king had said. “I pray god that they killed him, so he cannot stand in Asha’s way.”

I've always wondered if that quote was from when Aeron returned to Pyke (most likely unaware of Theon's true quest) or after Winterfell had been burnt.

If its the first really hits home what a horrible man Balon is.

What's eveyones thoughts?

House Codd

Their sigil is a codfish and their motto is “Though All Men Do Despise Us”. They look like the Freys of Iron Islands. They are currently loyal to Euron.

There is also House Humble who are descended from thralls but they seem to be more well regarded than the Codds.

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I've always wondered if that quote was from when Aeron returned to Pyke (most likely unaware of Theon's true quest) or after Winterfell had been burnt.

If its the first really hits home what a horrible man Balon is.

What's eveyones thoughts?

It looks like Balon and Aeron had that conversation after the Winterfell is sacked. They assumed that Theon might be dead but as Asha said no one could find his body. So, they are not completely sure that Theon is dead.

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Greyjoy Chapter Titles

Separating Theon from the others (because he is not fully an ironborn), all the chapters of Aeron, Asha and Victarion are given titles other than their character names. The only exception is the final chapter of Victarion in which he aligns himself with the Red Priest who occasionally speaks blasphemy against the Drowned God. We will discuss that more detailed later but I think that point is where Victarion is starting to separate himself from the ironborn culture.

Hence, the ironborn do not seem to assume their own names as POV titles as long as they hold onto the ironborn culture. I think this may be interpreted as it is very hard to exist as a person with a name in a harsh culture like the ironborn. In fact, we see that many of the ironborn go with sobriquets. Barber Nute, Andrik the Unsmiling, Dagmer Cleftjaw, The Knight, Eric Anvilbreaker, Crow’s Eye, Lord Captain, Tarle the Thrice-Drowned, Damphair, Red Kraken and many others.

Paying the iron price applies to the sobriquets as well. A man should earn his own name in the Iron Islands.

Interestingly, some of the old kings of winter have similar badass sobriquets as well like Brandon Ice-Eyes, Theon the Hungry Wolf etc.

.

i agree with you; I do think it's significant that Asha's chapter titles are all reflection of men, not her. Aeron and Vic's titles are at least about them (The Prophet, The Iron Captain, ect). Those describe who they are in Iron Born Culture. Asha's chapters tie her back toward a man:

--The Kraken's Daughter: Balon's child

--The Wayward Bride: her husband that, IIRC, we've never really met, to whom she was married in abstention, and whom she's never bedded. This title could have been something about her conquest and holding of Deepwood Motte.

--The King's Prize: obvious

--The Sacrifice: They want to give her to R'hllor the Lord of light.

Asha both holds to Iron Born culture (her prowess at sea, her ability to lead men, following some of the Old Way) and tries to distance herself from it (being a woman who wishes to hold the Chair. I think she's earned an Iron Born name--and Balon certainly held her in high regard. But the men of the Iron Born culture get to dictate who she is. Aeron's stance in his first chapter was a reflection of that: no woman may rule. Even if she is Balon's daughter.

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