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Jorah: Mildly Disturbing or Tragically Romantic?


Kyoshi

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There is currently a thread debating why the majority of readers seem to forgive Jaime his crimes but not Jorah. One of the core arguments driving this debate is whether Jorah's infatuation with Daenerys is mere lust induced by Dany's physical likeness to his second wife OR if he is a man in love, a true romantic at heart.



I would just like to get the general sense of where people stand on this issue as it seems to inspire some of the most impassioned opinions I've seen on this forum...something I always observe each time Daenerys's name is mentioned.



PS: I apologise in advance if such a thread has already been started.


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From Jorah's perspective it's perfectly natural. He was madly in love with his second wife, and Dany looks like a younger and more beautiful version of her. Also in universe, older men marry young girls all the time. (Walder Frey, Jon Arryn ect.)


However by today's standards, yes, a middle aged man being infatuated with a 15 year old girl is creepy.


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From Jorah's perspective it's perfectly natural. He was madly in love with his second wife, and Dany looks like a younger and more beautiful version of her. Also in universe, older men marry young girls all the time. (Walder Frey, Jon Arryn ect.)

However by today's standards, yes, a middle aged man being infatuated with a 15 year old girl is creepy.

But doesn't he meet her when she's 13? I mean, she was still a child.

I personally found him very, very creepy. When Tyrion sees him in the brothel he has a prostitute who looks like Dany on his lap. I think even by Westerosi standards that's stalker-ish...and just creepy.

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I guess that he can be both creepy and romantic.



Age is not really that important in Westeros or Essos.



Tommen marries Margaery, even though he is still a child.



Sylva is to be married a man who is old enough to be her father and Lysa married a man old enough to be her grandfather.




Daenerys looks a lot like Lynesse but she also reminds Barristan of Ashara.



The difference is that while Barristan acknowledges that Dany resembles his lost love, he doesn't cross the line and considers Dany as his Queen but also thinks of her as his daughter.



Jorah doesn't simply lust after Dany, he does seem to have a thing for women with silver-blonde hair, but he appears to be infatuated with Dany, to the extent that without her, he has lost the will to live.





The knight had not adapted well to bondage. When called upon to play the bear and carry off the maiden fair, he had been sullen and uncooperative, shuffling lifelessly through his paces when he deigned to take part in their mummery at all. Though he had not attempted escape, nor offered violence to his captors, he would ignore their commands oft as not or reply with muttered curses. None of this had amused Nurse, who made his displeasure clear by confining Mormont in an iron cage and having him beaten every evening as the sun sank into Slaver' s Bay. The knight absorbed the beatings silently; the only sounds were the muttered curses of the slaves who beat him and the dull thuds of their clubs pounding against Ser Jorah's bruised and battered flesh. The man is a shell, Tyrion thought, the first time he saw the big knight beaten.








Mormont paid no mind to the mongrel crowd; his eyes were fixed beyond the siege lines, on the distant city with its ancient walls of many-colored brick. Tyrion could read that look as easy as a book: so near and yet so distant. The poor wretch had returned too late. Daenerys Targaryen was wed, the guards on the pens had told them, laughing.



All the fight went out of him when he heard that his queen had wed, Tyrion realized. One whispered word had done what fists and whips and clubs could not; it had broken him.


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But doesn't he meet her when she's 13? I mean, she was still a child.

I personally found him very, very creepy. When Tyrion sees him in the brothel he has a prostitute who looks like Dany on his lap. I think even by Westerosi standards that's stalker-ish...and just creepy.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's creepy. I was just rationalizing it from Jorah's perspective.

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She is 13 when they meet, so yes, definitively creepy.

Danelle, I really like how you compare Jorah and Barristan. You're right. She reminds them both of a lost love, the differerence in their way of dealing with that is why I like Barristan and don't like Jorah.

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Daenerys looks a lot like Lynesse but she also reminds Barristan of Ashara.

The difference is that while Barristan acknowledges that Dany resembles his lost love, he doesn't cross the line and considers Dany as his Queen but also thinks of her as his daughter.

Jorah doesn't simply lust after Dany, he does seem to have a thing for women with silver-blonde hair, but he appears to be infatuated with Dany, to the extent that without her, he has lost the will to live.

See I have a problem with that. He doesn't see her as an individual person but as an extension or representation of something and someone. She's a fantasy to him IMHO. And as you say, Barristan channels that love in a healthier direction while Jorah, even when constantly rejected by Dany, is persistent in a somewhat disturbing manner.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's creepy. I was just rationalizing it from Jorah's perspective.

You're right. That's probably how he sees it.

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From Jorah's perspective, there's nothing wrong with it. He meets her at a wedding, after all. Modern standards, so so so so so creepy, and I'm afraid for things like this, these more sexualized things, I will never turn off that modern perspective. I mean, he's thrice her age. Thrice!!!


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How can you know so exactly his thoughts about Dany, without having Jorah's POV?



We do not even know, how much Lynesse resembles Dany. I'd say he wasn't interested in her until she started to act like Khaleesi, because it seems Jorah likes authority in women.



As for creepiness, beautiful man= possible lover, not so attractive man = creepy. That's the unjustice of the world. Dany does not think of him as creepy though, so don't I.


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"I loved my wife."


"What did she look like?"


"Just like you."



That's the moment Dany realizes he wants her. It's clear enough that Jorah sees Dany as another Lynesse. Dany also thinks he's ugly and doesn't want him, so I don't want him for her.


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"I loved my wife."

"What did she look like?"

"Just like you."

That's the moment Dany realizes he wants her. It's clear enough that Jorah sees Dany as another Lynesse. Dany also thinks he's ugly and doesn't want him, so I don't want him for her.

Pretty much this.

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How can you know so exactly his thoughts about Dany, without having Jorah's POV?

We do not even know, how much Lynesse resembles Dany. I'd say he wasn't interested in her until she started to act like Khaleesi, because it seems Jorah likes authority in women.

As for creepiness, beautiful man= possible lover, not so attractive man = creepy. That's the unjustice of the world. Dany does not think of him as creepy though, so don't I.

I disagree with your assessment of beautiful man=possible lover and not so attractive man=creepy. I've seen countless Sansan fans, Tyrion/Sansa fans. It's not so much about beauty. Age on the other hand, is a very strong factor. Though the Sansans and Sansa/Tyrions also disregard the age factor, preferring to project the possible relationships into the future where the girls might be women by both Westerosi and modern standards.

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You know that's not what I mean. Dany doesn't want him. Dany isn't attracted to him. that's all that matters. He could be beautiful to others and I'd still hate if he ended up with Dany if she just plain doesn't want him.

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You know that's not what I mean. Dany doesn't want him. Dany isn't attracted to him. that's all that matters. He could be beautiful to others and I'd still hate if he ended up with Dany if she just plain doesn't want him.

:agree:

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if she just plain doesn't want him.

She plain doesn't want anyone that isn't super attractive in her own eyes, regardless of if they are a raper, or a murderer, or a liar. Soooo, I'll just hate Dany for being Dany when, of all the suitors she's faced, she's only chosen the worst ones because they were 'not ugly'.

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She plain doesn't want anyone that isn't super attractive in her own eyes, regardless of if they are a raper, or a murderer, or a liar. Soooo, I'll just hate Dany for being Dany when, of all the suitors she's faced, she's only chosen the worst ones because they were 'not ugly'.

Wait, is that actually why you hate Dany? Sorry if I'm reading your post wrong.

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