ADwD Spoilers! - The Bodies Imprisoned at Castle Black (and Coldhands?)

[Valinhall]

Jon's fate - and that of the Night's Watch and the Wall in general - is currently unknown, so I've decided for my first post to bring up another question that I haven't seen anyone else ask yet, just to frustrate us further: What's going on with the corpses of the wildlings Jon locked in prison at Castle Black? Jon brought them there for observation, hoping to learn more about the Others and the wights, but nothing happened to them; in Jon's words, they "stubbornly remained dead."

I don't think GRRM would have called back to them so many times over the courses of Jon's chapters (or even included them at all) unless they had an important role to play. My question is, what is that role? Is it related to Jon's fate? Is it related to the 'ice dragon' locked in the wall? Are they just there to screw with us?

One of my ideas is one that I am entirely uncomfortable with: Jon dies during the mutiny and wargs into one of the corpses, perhaps accidentally, perhaps not. He then can have a body that he has full control of, retaining his memory and personality even though he's technically dead. While typing this, it occurred to me that Coldhands might be a warg possessing a random (or not random) wight. Thoughts?

[SunflashJT]

I think they are referenced so many times because they are not reanimating. I feel this is to show that the dead don't rise unless they are 'touched' by the others or another wight.

I don't like to mingle the show and the books, however when you consider that the show has to 'abbreviate' explanations and hidden meanings, i.e. Olenna Tyrell coming right out and saying she killed Joffrey, you can then infer that some of the thing shown on the show are intended to show the viewers how things work.

For example, when Bran reaches the heart tree and Jojen is killed, we see a wight stop to touch Jojen. At which point his eyes begin to turn blue and 'Leaf' (aka the Child) throws a fireball at Jojen to keep him from rising.

It has long been a theory of mine that the Others must come in contact with the dead before they are raised, I additionally had a feeling that once reanimation was bestowed on a corpse, that corpse could in turn raise other dead with their own touch.

Those are my thoughts, but your theory is an interesting one.

[Valinhall]

I think they are referenced so many times because they are not reanimating. I feel this is to show that the dead don't rise unless they are 'touched' by the others or another wight.

That makes a lot of sense, but seems so very underwhelming. In my humble opinion, if that were the reason the bodies weren't rising, Jon would have figured it out during his POVs.

[wolfmaid7]

I think the reason they are mentioned so much is because we are not suppose to forget them because they will rise not because they need to be touched by wws but because "the cold" that comes with the Wights which is identified by the term "cold wind rising" is what does the reanimating, it will breach the Wall and the Wildings will rise. That's how we will know the Wall has fallen. They are to be our sign.

[Mother Of Dragon]

I agree with High Priestess that the cold rising will bring them to "life". However, I don't know why Jon wouldn't have commanded that they be burned. He should know better.

[eagleheart]

So if the show "showing" things theory is true, whycome does the Wight rise in Season 2 ( I think ) and attack Jon and Jeor Mormont? You know where Ghost smells something strange and leads Jon to find this Wight. Jon kills him and burns his hand a bit.

Did a whitewalker sneak into Castle Black and touch that one to reanimate it?

[Black Crow]

So if the show "showing" things theory is true, whycome does the Wight rise in Season 2 ( I think ) and attack Jon and Jeor Mormont? You know where Ghost smells something strange and leads Jon to find this Wight. Jon kills him and burns his hand a bit.

Did a whitewalker sneak into Castle Black and touch that one to reanimate it?

Although it first came up in an episode written by GRRM the business of "touching" is just a necessary compromise in the show. Its a visual medium and therefore requires a visual representation of how its done.

[SunflashJT]

So if the show "showing" things theory is true, whycome does the Wight rise in Season 2 ( I think ) and attack Jon and Jeor Mormont? You know where Ghost smells something strange and leads Jon to find this Wight. Jon kills him and burns his hand a bit.

Did a whitewalker sneak into Castle Black and touch that one to reanimate it?

Could be that the wight was already reanimated but was waiting until dark in attempt to kill the LC. By that same tone if you go by the 'Cold Animates Them' where was the Other whose cold aura had close enough proximity to the corpse for reanimation, also that is Season 1/Book 1. Either way the corpse had to be previously reanimated and waiting for its time to strike.

As far as my theory of the show 'showing' things, its a different medium from the book, we don't get inner thoughts of the characters and we don't get as much description of certain situations. I don't like mixing the book and the show cause they are completely different. The thing is we don't know how the Others raise the dead for sure yet, it could be that what they showed in the show is correct, could be just the producers interpretation. Bottom line is theories aren't proven they are just ideas.

[Bog Devil of Greywater]

What we do know is that wights remaining dormant for a time is possible. We see it with Othor and Jafer Flowers and the Castle Black situation, and we see it again with the dormant wights beneath the snow outside of Bloodraven's cave.

While it's not absolutely certain, animation appears to have happened well before the fact.

It is perfectly plausible, and perhaps even likely that they lie dormant in the daylight. We have several direct textual references to that effect from Sam.

"I found mention of dragonglass. The children of the forest used to give the Night's Watch a hundred obsidian daggers every year, during the Age of Heroes. The Others come when it is cold, most of the tales agree. Or else it gets cold when they come. Sometimes they appear during snowstorms and melt away when the skies clear. They hide from the light of the sun and emerge by night . . . or else night falls when they emerge. Some stories speak of them riding the corpses of dead animals. Bears, direwolves, mammoths, horses, it makes no matter, so long as the beast is dead. The one that killed Small Paul was riding a dead horse, so that part's plainly true. Some accounts speak of giant ice spiders too. I don't know what those are. Men who fall in battle against the Others must be burned, or else the dead will rise again as their thralls."

[wolfmaid7]

Could be that the wight was already reanimated but was waiting until dark in attempt to kill the LC. By that same tone if you go by the 'Cold Animates Them' where was the Other whose cold aura had close enough proximity to the corpse for reanimation, also that is Season 1/Book 1. Either way the corpse had to be previously reanimated and waiting for its time to strike.

As far as my theory of the show 'showing' things, its a different medium from the book, we don't get inner thoughts of the characters and we don't get as much description of certain situations. I don't like mixing the book and the show cause they are completely different. The thing is we don't know how the Others raise the dead for sure yet, it could be that what they showed in the show is correct, could be just the producers interpretation. Bottom line is theories aren't proven they are just ideas.

First time Ive ever heard of a cold aura from the wws that animates them.That makes less sense (that is not the cold theory by the way atlease it's not mine).

[Valinhall]

So if the show "showing" things theory is true, whycome does the Wight rise in Season 2 ( I think ) and attack Jon and Jeor Mormont? You know where Ghost smells something strange and leads Jon to find this Wight. Jon kills him and burns his hand a bit.

Did a whitewalker sneak into Castle Black and touch that one to reanimate it?

I think this is an important thing to discuss. Othor, the wight that Jon slew for Lord Commander Mormont, had been dead and unmoving long before they brought his corpse to Castle Black; I don't think the Others have to directly touch (or get within close proximity to) a corpse to reanimate it, and it seems the Night's Watch doesn't think so either, as they burn every corpse. So either the Others have a long-range magic that can raise corpses, or there's something about the far North itself that reanimates them. I don't think the idea that the Others have long-range spells is very likely, or more specifically, I don't think that's what raised Othor, because the Wall is supposed to be a magical ward against Others, and that presumably includes their magic as well as their physical forms.

Edit: Perhaps dying north of the Wall is the trick; there's some form of magic "in the air" that infects the corpses and raises them, even if they are moved south of the Wall post-mortem.

[SunflashJT]

First time Ive ever heard of a cold aura from the wws that animates them.That makes less sense (that is not the cold theory by the way atlease it's not mine).

Ok so give a cliffs notes of your theory, cause you are stating that the cold that comes with 'The Others' is what animates the wights. Well how is "the cold that comes with them" any different than an aura?

[wolfmaid7]

Ok so give a cliffs notes of your theory, cause you are stating that the cold that comes with 'The Others' is what animates the wights. Well how is "the cold that comes with them" any different than an aura?

I didn't say that either....I said "the cold" that the Wights come with is the animating force.Not because it is an aura etc but because it is a disembodied Skinchanger/GS.That's the reason the Wall blocks the dead because it blocks Skinchanging across unless both are across the Wall which happened with Othor and Jaffa.

So "the cold" is just a coined phrase to identify this entity wears the dead much like a skinchanger would do the same.

So going back to our friends in the cell,they had not been previously ridden by "the cold" that's why they don't rise,but that imo is about to change.The NW has killed its second LC basically they killed the Lordof the Crossing and are no longer true and that entity will be able to cross the Wall because it would have fallen. The only way to be able to visually determine that (seeing as that 700ft Wall won't physically fall anytime soon ) is the corpse in the ice cells.The cold wind rising is another tell tale sign because much like what happened to the v6 in the Dance prologue. It uses the winds to get around.

[SunflashJT]

I didn't say that either....I said "the cold" that the Wights come with is the animating force.Not because it is an aura etc but because it is a disembodied Skinchanger/GS.That's the reason the Wall blocks the dead because it blocks Skinchanging across unless both are across the Wall which happened with Othor and Jaffa.

So "the cold" is just a coined phrase to identify this entity wears the dead much like a skinchanger would do the same.

So going back to our friends in the cell,they had not been previously ridden by "the cold" that's why they don't rise,but that imo is about to change.The NW has killed its second LC basically they killed the Lordof the Crossing and are no longer true and that entity will be able to cross the Wall because it would have fallen. The only way to be able to visually determine that (seeing as that 700ft Wall won't physically fall anytime soon ) is the corpse in the ice cells.The cold wind rising is another tell tale sign because much like what happened to the v6 in the Dance prologue. It uses the winds to get around.

Ok, I see the difference thank you for clarifying.