Har! Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Bran's connection to Benjen being CH. Bran states: the children of the forest will help him(Benjen), when Bran learns that his uncle is missing He is scolded for bringing up Old Nan's stories. Bran sees a child of the forest she is helping Coldhands. When he first speaks with the child of the forest, he feels as if he has slipped into one of Old Nan's stories. Benjen taught Bran all the forts on the wall. He mentioned that Bran knew them so well he could be first ranger. Later, Bran knows about the Nightfort's ice stairs but is not sure if Benjen or Luwin told him. Bran did know that Benjen told him the ice was too treacherous for stairs. Coldhands has uncommon knowledge of the nightfort (location and operation of the black gate) Bran comments that Benjen is first ranger and might know where the 3 eyed crow is. Coldhands is a ranger that knows where the 3 eyed crow is. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Similarities? Match Benjen is described "as gaunt as a mountain crag" Bran describes coldhands as "thin and gaunt" Unknown CH covers the lower part of his face. Match CH wears mottled blacks and grays. Benjen was with the NW for 15 years Match CH appears to have control over animals Starks are known to be wargs Unknown Benjen had blue eyes CH has black eyes. (eye color change is part of becoming a wight) _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CH is recently deceased? Clothing does not appear to be ancient and CH did not pick up new clothing from the traitors at Crasters. (BR's blacks are all but rotted away in a couple of hundred years (give or take). Yoren's were worn to gray in about 30 (give or take). CH seems to fit between them. CH surprised by wights under the snow. He was concerned when he reached the cave but continued on when he did not see the wights. CH explains what happens to the body soon after death but not the long term effects. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Things to cast doubt on Coldhand's age Some (ravens) would fly to the ranger and mutter to him. It seemed to Bran that he understood their quorks and squaks. The time when men understood ravens has been forgotten by man. When Coldhands slaughtered the elk he spoke a tongue bran did not understand. Leaf said No. They killed him long ago If CH is a warg his ability to communicate with the ravens need not be ancient. The Old Tongue is the language is currently in use by the Wildings and known by some NW brothers. Bran does not speak the old tongue as Leaf learned the common tongue for him. The statement was made in as a correction to Bran's concern that the wights were going to kill CH if they leave him outside the cave. The statement includes that Leaf knew about the death of person now known as CH's. Bran's concern includes that he did not. Leaf knew both CH backstory and that CH did not tell Bran. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ CH is not BR's meat puppet. If BR warged CH, the elk, and the ravens, then ravens communicating with CH would be BR talking to himself. The elk was not as obedient when CH was not close. BR knew about the wights under the snow outside the cave. CH did not. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Finally, Bejen's mission in the lands of always winter has either taken place completely off page or Benjen is CH. If Benjen turns up in winds of winter with a weapon or information that will defeat the Others, all that Jon, Bran, and Stannis did was simply a diversion. If Bran and CH's do the same thing the battle against the others is at least decided in the text. best summation of the evidence i've ever read, you've done a boss job, kudos to you! love the analysis of the clothing and the 'they killed him long ago' quote. the latter is usually the linchpin in arguments against Benjen, however it has to be taken in context that you provide, Leaf knows the backstory, is aware that Bran does not and that CH has deliberately not informed Bran... also the context of how 'long' long ago is... not last week, not last month... would several months of being dead qualify as 'long' enough when talking about how long a entity has been a wight? great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Obama Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think GRRM won't make Coldhands Benjen. GRRM makes a habit of destroying cliches, so Coldhands probably won't be Jon's uncle. My guess, Coldhands will probably be the Night King, in my opinion. I think that's why the children do not like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoip Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I have a hard time with the idea that Benjen is Coldhands because it's too easy. There is so little hard evidence for any argument though. What bothers me is the information and skills Coldhands has. Firstly Coldhands is an accomplished Skinchanger. He talks to the ravens, he controls an elk. Strangely though, no direwolf, or even a regular wolf, which are so heavily associated with the Starks. Summer does not like his smell. But then, he's dead. Still, Benjen would have had to learn an awful lot in just the two years since his disappearance. Then the black gate. Benjen as a first ranger apparantly has to know about all the castles along the wall, but does he know all about the castles? There is no indication that anyone in the current NW has knowledge of the black gate or some action would have been taken (someone would've warned against settling Wildings or other non-NW in the Nightfort for example). I wonder if the watch even knew 200 years ago when they abandoned the Nightfort. For now I assume they did not know. Now, the interesting thing is that Coldhands does know about it, but he is not able to pass through the gate. That means he at least can not have explored the fort to find it after he died (when he had the time to do so) because of the wards on the wall. Which in turn means he either would have known about it before he died, which would have been well over 200 years ago.. Or he could have learned it through someone else (Bloodraven). I would argue that Bloodraven also would not know from his days in the Night's Watch as that was long after the Nightfort was abandoned, but we don't know what he may have learned from the weirwood network. CH knows of BR, they have possibly had contact, but no direct contact for a long time as CH can't enter BR's cave and BR can't go outside. This is a part with which I have a lot of difficulty. So either Benjen Stark knew of Bloodraven before he died and was somehow convinced to not kill BR for oathbreaking and kept his existence quiet. Or he died, came to terms with it, learned to understand the ravens, came into indirect contact via ravens with an unknown sorcerer who convinces him to help abduct his Stark nephews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwalker Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 coldhands is either one of the rangers that went with bloodraven when he found his way to the children, and just got stuck out. He could also be a dead guy that bloodraven somehow warged before the walkers took him as one of them. or is it possible to warg a walker. i bet rick grimes would like to know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Har! Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 surprised no one has posted this, warning, spoilers: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2rtcaa/i_went_to_the_cushing_library_and_went_through/ http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 surprised no one has posted this, warning, spoilers: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2rtcaa/i_went_to_the_cushing_library_and_went_through/ http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg there was a whole thread on this when it first came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think GRRM won't make Coldhands Benjen. GRRM makes a habit of destroying cliches, so Coldhands probably won't be Jon's uncle.My guess, Coldhands will probably be the Night King, in my opinion. I think that's why the children do not like him. Maybe they don't like him because he's a wight. There wouldn't be no purpose for the Others if the Night's King was controlled by Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finger Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 At Nightfort, Coldhands couldn't pass through the NW door.One might think that brothers of the NW aare not so any longer since "their watch is ended". :dunno: I'd have liked something funny. For instance, BR might have got Bittersteel's body so that he can grind him after dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Crow Come Over Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 surprised no one has posted this, warning, spoilers: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2rtcaa/i_went_to_the_cushing_library_and_went_through/ http://i.imgur.com/FfI1goA.jpg Because its highly dubious thats its actually a handwritten note by GRRM. Having said that, CH is not Benjen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertRivers Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm of the mind he's one of the Ravens teeth that went to the wall with bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 All these theories pale in comparison to him being one of the 79 sentinels. It's the only one that explains why he is still serving the interests of the watch even in death and even though he is clearly a Wight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagewich Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 All these theories pale in comparison to him being one of the 79 sentinels. It's the only one that explains why he is still serving the interests of the watch even in death and even though he is clearly a Wight. Good point.The sentinels had slipped away from my memory. I hope that CH is not Benjen. Waste of a good character. And I want to know why he went to the Wall. My crackpot theory is the Children did help him, on Bloodraven's orders. They wrapped the obsidian in Benjens' cloak for the NW to find. Benjen is the Hooded Man at Winterfell. There must always be a Stark in WInterfell. Why he would go to Winterfell instead of the Wall is the really crack pot part. Sorry if this has be put for before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Good point.The sentinels had slipped away from my memory. I hope that CH is not Benjen. Waste of a good character. And I want to know why he went to the Wall. He's not. And I found this SSM about the latter: [Why did Benjen join the Night's Watch?] Good question. One day you will get an answer. But it will not be today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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