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Possibility GRRM is finishing final 2 books at same time?


House Holter

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I guess if you're right we can expect a release date around 2032 :cool4:

Perhaps not quite that bad. Three years after FEAST OF CROWS, he had also made very little, if any, progress. It was almost as bad as the current situation, as measured by PROGRESS in submitted material, except that GRRM had also started with more material left over from FEAST (nearly 500 manuscript pages).

So yes, he is behind schedule compared to the 5.75 year wait for A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. But not by much, if he gets cracking, as he eventually did with A DANCE WITH DRAGONS.

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My nightmare is that he never finishes either book, and that we are dependent upon the show until someone gives the last two books the Christopher Tolkien treatment.

I'm not so terribly fussed about being spoiled, though. Firstly because although I expect the main lines of the story to be the same, there will still be a lot of difference in the details. Secondly because a lot of the pleasure in reading the books has to do with style and dialogue, which are only imperfectly replicated in the show. So even if I know what is going to happen in broad terms, I'll still want to read the books.

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My nightmare is that he never finishes either book, and that we are dependent upon the show until someone gives the last two books the Christopher Tolkien treatment.

I'm not so terribly fussed about being spoiled, though. Firstly because although I expect the main lines of the story to be the same, there will still be a lot of difference in the details. Secondly because a lot of the pleasure in reading the books has to do with style and dialogue, which are only imperfectly replicated in the show. So even if I know what is going to happen in broad terms, I'll still want to read the books.

He's already stated that if he were to pass before the books were finished, he would not wish anyone to finish them for him. In that case, it will be the show or nothing.

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I want the show and the books to end the same way at least even if they take a different path because really how annoying would it be if the world is like "And Khaleesi won the throne in the end !" when book readers know that Daenerys didn't ?


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Biggest thing we all have to remember is these books are full of easter eggs and hidden meanings i would imagine coming up with it all and critiquing it takes a massive amount of time so that all makes it worth the wait. If he didn't write this way this board would be dead i'm happy with some dunk and egg stories while i wait if he can at least do those and other prequels on the side that b cool.


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Just looking at a calendar, the show will be over in 1,062 days. That is an estimated completion date of June 11, 2017. Do people really think GRRM will finish two books in this time?



Lets peel back the onion some more. The scripts need to be finished around July in 2016. So GRRM has about 730 days until the show is completely written. Does anybody really think he will finish two books in this time?



The story will be completed by the show first. Which I prefer. The show is far superior to the books. The books are very good, but have so much unnecessary content....


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The show is far superior to the books. The books are very good, but have so much unnecessary content....

There is a separate thread for crackpot theories.

I can't see how the show is better. The books are tight, they stand up to huge scrutiny on these very boards. The show is full of holes, like Arya and the Hound turning up at the Bloody Gate and announcing themselves, and then being left leave. The show is full of simplified plot lines like Tulisa v the Westerlings. The show fails to capture the epic scale of some events like the Mance Rayder's attack on the wall. The show has had some horrifically stupid creations like Asha's confrontation with Ramsay in the Dreadfort and her subsequent escape. And don't get me started on Bran's entrance to Bloodraven's cave. The show whitewashes characters, e.g. Tyrion. That unnecessary material you're talking about is called depth and complexity. The show does well with the limits of time and budget, but far superior?

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The story will be completed by the show first. Which I prefer. The show is far superior to the books. The books are very good, but have so much unnecessary content....

No. An adaption is never better than the original source.

Game of Thrones is full of plot holes and it lacks the worldbuilding, the depth of characters and mystery. There is no single mystery in the tv show, not to mention the lack of prophecies. If they really wanted to add black characters to the show then they should've casted Alayaya and kill off Ros in episode 2 or something.

Still, it's a good show but not as good as it was in Season One.

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There is a separate thread for crackpot theories.

I can't see how the show is better. The books are tight, they stand up to huge scrutiny on these very boards. The show is full of holes, like Arya and the Hound turning up at the Bloody Gate and announcing themselves, and then being left leave. The show is full of simplified plot lines like Tulisa v the Westerlings. The show fails to capture the epic scale of some events like the Mance Rayder's attack on the wall. The show has had some horrifically stupid creations like Asha's confrontation with Ramsay in the Dreadfort and her subsequent escape. And don't get me started on Bran's entrance to Bloodraven's cave. The show whitewashes characters, e.g. Tyrion. That unnecessary material you're talking about is called depth and complexity. The show does well with the limits of time and budget, but far superior?

The books are not "tight". The last two books are full of tons of fluff that the show will get rid of. Right now there are 3 great books and 2 bad ones. That is only 60%..... She show is 4 for 4 in seasons so far. And the show made the attack on the wall epic..... Far better then the books. They even devoted more then an episodes to the battle of the wall....

No. An adaption is never better than the original source.

Game of Thrones is full of plot holes and it lacks the worldbuilding, the depth of characters and mystery. There is no single mystery in the tv show, not to mention the lack of prophecies. If they really wanted to add black characters to the show then they should've casted Alayaya and kill off Ros in episode 2 or something.

Still, it's a good show but not as good as it was in Season One.

http://blog.shmoop.com/2010/06/21/movie-adaptations-book/

Those 8 movies say differently. Sometimes an adaption is better then the source. This is one of those cases.

But we are getting away from the original topic. No matter what you think of the books, the story is going to be finished on television first. Hooray for that.

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The books are not "tight". The last two books are full of tons of fluff that the show will get rid of. Right now there are 3 great books and 2 bad ones. That is only 60%..... She show is 4 for 4 in seasons so far. And the show made the attack on the wall epic..... Far better then the books. They even devoted more then an episodes to the battle of the wall....

http://blog.shmoop.com/2010/06/21/movie-adaptations-book/

Those 8 movies say differently. Sometimes an adaption is better then the source. This is one of those cases.

But we are getting away from the original topic. No matter what you think of the books, the story is going to be finished on television first. Hooray for that.

stating an opinion as objective fact is never a great way to go about things.

and what you consider 'fluff' in books 4 & 5 is to a large extent what the majority of this board pores over daily searching for clues, theories and commentary. it's what makes the books so rich. in my opinion, books 4 and 5 are some of the most enjoyable purely because they are so full of detail, world-building and small asides that provide potential insight into the history of westeros, into theories, prophecies, symbolism, foreshadowing and so on. to ignore that (as the show so often does) is to remove one of the primary joys of experiencing A Song Of Ice And Fire.

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There is a separate thread for crackpot theories.

I can't see how the show is better. The books are tight, they stand up to huge scrutiny on these very boards. The show is full of holes, like Arya and the Hound turning up at the Bloody Gate and announcing themselves, and then being left leave. The show is full of simplified plot lines like Tulisa v the Westerlings. The show fails to capture the epic scale of some events like the Mance Rayder's attack on the wall. The show has had some horrifically stupid creations like Asha's confrontation with Ramsay in the Dreadfort and her subsequent escape. And don't get me started on Bran's entrance to Bloodraven's cave. The show whitewashes characters, e.g. Tyrion. That unnecessary material you're talking about is called depth and complexity. The show does well with the limits of time and budget, but far superior?

Many people prefer the show to the books. Many people like the show just as much as the books. Many people only started reading the show because of the books. Many people have tried to read the books and didn't like them, but enjoy the show. Many people haven't read the books and never will read the books but watch the show every week.

Guess what? They all have the right to feel that way about the show, just as much as you have the right to like the books over the show. Stop acting like people are crackpots simply because they have different preferences than you.

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The list of superior adaptations missed out Blade Runner (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?).


VERY occasionally you get adaptations that surpass the source, but I really don't think ASoIaF is one of those occasions.



In the first season I can see why people may have made this claim, seeing as it was as close to a word-for-word adaptation as I have ever seen. However, as the series progressed and the world in the books keeps growing and growing, you can't fit all of that backstory and world-building into a tv show, it just isn't possible.


This ends up creating a distillation of plot and characters, with constant shortcuts between what the writers of the show consider "most important/most exciting". Whilst this might make for good televison, it's hardly something you can immerse yourself in (at least, not compared to the books). Then more recently you have the bizzare changes that seem to serve no purpose at all... I get that they were trying to make it "tight", but in stretching the source material so comparitively thin, it has sprung a few leaks. Not to mention, real life isn't "tight" - Yes there are some points in the books that may not be as engrossing, but that's what makes them feel so real for me,



Anyway, um... the OP: It is a beautiful fantasy that I cling to (the books finishing before the show). But in reality I think I will be hiding in a cave for a few years, desperately trying to avoid spoilers until the books are released :(


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The list of superior adaptations missed out Blade Runner (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?).

VERY occasionally you get adaptations that surpass the source, but I really don't think ASoIaF is one of those occasions.

In the first season I can see why people may have made this claim, seeing as it was as close to a word-for-word adaptation as I have ever seen. However, as the series progressed and the world in the books keeps growing and growing, you can't fit all of that backstory and world-building into a tv show, it just isn't possible.

This ends up creating a distillation of plot and characters, with constant shortcuts between what the writers of the show consider "most important/most exciting". Whilst this might make for good televison, it's hardly something you can immerse yourself in (at least, not compared to the books). Then more recently you have the bizzare changes that seem to serve no purpose at all... I get that they were trying to make it "tight", but in stretching the source material so comparitively thin, it has sprung a few leaks. Not to mention, real life isn't "tight" - Yes there are some points in the books that may not be as engrossing, but that's what makes them feel so real for me,

Anyway, um... the OP: It is a beautiful fantasy that I cling to (the books finishing before the show). But in reality I think I will be hiding in a cave for a few years, desperately trying to avoid spoilers until the books are released :(

I would say people are having no problem immersing themselves in the show based on the popularity of it.

And you are stating a fatal flaw of book readers. Not just for this book series, but for all books in general. And that flaw is..... If it didn't happen like it did in the books, it isn't as good in their minds. I swear, a book can have the worst plot points, and people will justify it by saying: "Well, it was in the books". However, when a movie or television show deviates from the book in the better way, there is always a portion of the book readers who complain because they did not stay "true" to the story.

Arya & Tywin wasn't in the books. It was superior to Arya & Roose. Hound & Brienne was not in the books and that was an epic fight on the television show.

I am glad I won't have to live in a cave when the show finishes the story first. And be prepared to live in that cave for a long time. Once the show passes the books, GRRM will have even less motivation to finish the series....

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