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Ned and Cat


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#1 lyannaisalive

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:51 PM

Is there a reason Ned never told the truth about Jon to Cat. I understand its not something you would tell people but she was his wife and they had a very strong relationship. It seems like he could have told her the truth at any point and Jon would have had a better life as would Cat. thoughts? 



#2 BearQueen87

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:54 PM

 

Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust.

 

 

Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

 

Because he loves her and he trusts her, but protecting Jon is key. He can't take the risk that if push comes to shove, Cat won't protect her own children over Jon.



#3 The Santa of House Claus

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:59 PM

Well, assuming R+L=J is true, then I would imagine it was just because he did not want anyone to know because he knew what sort of danger that secret would put them in. If it ever got out, it could mean civil war. Robert wanting Jon dead, Targ loyalists trying to kidnap Jon, ect. It was just to dangerous a secret.



#4 KingMaekarWasHere

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

Is there a reason Ned never told the truth about Jon to Cat. I understand its not something you would tell people but she was his wife and they had a very strong relationship. It seems like he could have told her the truth at any point and Jon would have had a better life as would Cat. thoughts?


Well we are also assuming that Jon is born of the Rhaegar and Lyanna union which I believe in as of now as well, but what if we are wrong? What if just like Theon in the HuisClois theories online, Ned is suppressing a deeper truth about Jon? I don't think that it is crackpot to assume that we don't know all the stuff behind the Tower of Joy, after all not everything about Westeros is sweet, romantic. A lot of people want the Rhaegar and Lyanna love story to be true and that affects their perception a little bit. What if Rhaegar was saving Lyanna for another reason? What if Jon is her son by another man and Rhaegar just ordered the White Cloaks to protect him? (and they had to obey because he was the Prince of Dragonstone, who by the way has authority over the White Cloaks too, not just the king.) Now I know the love story is probably true, but as I said what if Ned was hiding something more? And what if even though Rhaegar loved Lyanna, he did not have Jon with her? Isn't that possible?

#5 Chilli

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:22 PM

If Cat would know the secret and she would be more friendly to Jon, people would think something isn't right and would start to wonder why. If Cat is acting really cold to Jon, people assume it's because he's Ned's bastard and wouldn't think further about it.



#6 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:26 PM

Keeping Jon safe and hidden is treason in the eyes of the new dynasty, so telling Catelyn would only have served to endanger her.

 

Also, when Ned returned form the war, he didn't really know Catelyn. The trust came only later.



#7 Arya Weinergaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

I saw two reasons for not telling her.

1.  Lyanna may have made him vow somthing VERY specific, where telling ANYONE, would have been a violation of the vow.  Eddard was very stricks in his honour.

2.   Catlyn hated Jon for being Eddard's bastard.  That's part of who she was.  If she'd known that he was really her nephew, she would have behaved differently towards him, putting everyone in jeopardy.  Robert Baratheon HATED the Targaryens and I think he would have obliterated the Starks if he'd known that Lyanna had a son by Rhegar who was harbored by them.



#8 Unbent_Unbroken

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 03:42 PM

At the time Ned brought Jon home, he didn't really know Cat. He couldn't have been sure that she would've gone along with him, if R+L=J is true. (I'd be more surprised at this point if it wasn't.) By the time love and trust had developed between them, he'd kept the secret for so long that Cat may have still reacted poorly if he told her the truth. There's still no guarantee she'd keep the secret.

Plausible deniability is another reason. If Robert finds out about Jon's parentage and Cat doesn't know, there's a greater chance of her and the children being spared. Benjen probably wasn't told for the same reason.

#9 Arya Weinergaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:24 PM

At the time Ned brought Jon home, he didn't really know Cat. He couldn't have been sure that she would've gone along with him, if R+L=J is true. (I'd be more surprised at this point if it wasn't.) By the time love and trust had developed between them, he'd kept the secret for so long that Cat may have still reacted poorly if he told her the truth. There's still no guarantee she'd keep the secret.

Plausible deniability is another reason. If Robert finds out about Jon's parentage and Cat doesn't know, there's a greater chance of her and the children being spared. Benjen probably wasn't told for the same reason.

:agree:

 

 

When the story starts, at least 14 years have passed since war that overthrough the Targaryens, and Robert is STILL furious enough with Targaryens that he wants little Rhegar's sister (who is like 13,) asassinated.  Not even their childhood friendship would save Eddard, if Roberts was truly merciful and one one else knew, he might not obliterate Winterfell.



#10 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:25 PM

At the time Ned brought Jon home, he didn't really know Cat. He couldn't have been sure that she would've gone along with him, if R+L=J is true. (I'd be more surprised at this point if it wasn't.) By the time love and trust had developed between them, he'd kept the secret for so long that Cat may have still reacted poorly if he told her the truth. There's still no guarantee she'd keep the secret.

Plausible deniability is another reason. If Robert finds out about Jon's parentage and Cat doesn't know, there's a greater chance of her and the children being spared. Benjen probably wasn't told for the same reason.

We don't know if Benjen knows.. Fact is that he did leave for the Wall shortly after Ned returned from the war. What his reasons were, we don't know. But I would call it possible that Benjen went to the Wall because of something that he knows that has happened, or because of something that he was invovled with.



#11 Arya Weinergaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:26 PM

Keeping Jon safe and hidden is treason in the eyes of the new dynasty, so telling Catelyn would only have served to endanger her.

 

Also, when Ned returned form the war, he didn't really know Catelyn. The trust came only later.

 

 

 

As I recall, he married her and Jon Arryn married Lysa Tully to secure the Tully swords for the campaign.  Then he and Jon Aryn went off to war RIGHT after the weddings.



#12 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:28 PM

 

 

 

As I recall, he married her and Jon Arryn married Lysa Tully to secure the Tully swords for the campaign.  Then he and Jon Aryn went off to war RIGHT after the weddings.

Yes, that's true. Ned met Catelyn, married her, and left her with a babe in the belly. They spend a fortnight together, and then they didn't see each other for more than 9 months.. So when Ned came home, he barely knew Catelyn, and thus wouldn't have known how much to trust her.. Who would Catelyn feel more loyalty to? The husband she doesn't know, or her own father? Whose safety would she care more about, her own newborn son, whose life might be in danger if the treason of her husband is discovered? Or the safety of a child she has no relation with?


Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen, 13 July 2014 - 04:29 PM.


#13 Arya Weinergaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:28 PM

We don't know if Benjen knows.. Fact is that he did leave for the Wall shortly after Ned returned from the war. What his reasons were, we don't know. But I would call it possible that Benjen went to the Wall because of something that he knows that has happened, or because of something that he was invovled with.

 

 

 

I had thought it was because he didn't exactly have a place at Winterfell and the Night's Watch is an honorable place for extra sons to spend their lives.  I suppose it might make more sense if he went there, at least in part, because of some specific reason.



#14 stateofdissipation

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:42 PM

Is there a reason Ned never told the truth about Jon to Cat. I understand its not something you would tell people but she was his wife and they had a very strong relationship. It seems like he could have told her the truth at any point and Jon would have had a better life as would Cat. thoughts? 

He promised Lyanna to raise Jon as his son.

Ned thought of all he had given for his promise.  Yet he still considered the promise broken.

 

Did you ever think that Cat was supposed to marry Ned's brother that was killed because of Lyanna's kindnapping... Ned married Cat for the Tully alliance in what turned out to be a completely baseless revolution.

 

Hey Cat... remember your first betrothed.. he was a moron and Lyanna was not kidnapped..

When he went to KL demanding Rhaegar come out to die... it was a confession of treason

and dad that went to save him well.. he threw his life away...

We were kind of wrong in that one and Aerys was not alll that mad after all....

 

I know this cause i brought back Lyanna and Rgaegar's kid...

lets just add him to the litter...


Edited by stateofdissipation, 13 July 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#15 BearQueen87

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

We don't know if Benjen knows.. Fact is that he did leave for the Wall shortly after Ned returned from the war. What his reasons were, we don't know. But I would call it possible that Benjen went to the Wall because of something that he knows that has happened, or because of something that he was invovled with.

 

I agree. I think Benjen's reasons for joining the NW were not only because he was the 3rd son and NW is honorable, but also because he knows a bit more than we do about Lyanna/Rhaegar. Once you take the black, anything considered "sinful" that can be used against you is washed away. Convenient, no?



#16 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:54 PM

 

I agree. I think Benjen's reasons for joining the NW were not only because he was the 3rd son and NW is honorable, but also because he knows a bit more than we do about Lyanna/Rhaegar. Once you take the black, anything considered "sinful" that can be used against you is washed away. Convenient, no?

Well, Benjen was interesting in the NW ever since Harrenhal, so I believe that it was always his plan to join the NW, eventually. But after the war, he joined very quickly, while the succession of the Starks was anything but certain (only Ned and an infant heir remained). So I guess he either joined because he had been actively involved in a part of the war (and my thoughts go out most strongly to having helped Lyanna sneak off with Rhaegar, obviously without realising what the consequences could be, or would be. But then again, how could anyone have predicted that..?), or he joined because he knew the truth (about Jon, and thus the reasons why his family members died... all for Rhaegar's prophecy) and couldn't stand to be at Winterfell after that. And thus he left for the Wall.

 

Benjen had been interested in the Wall before, but I think it's telling that he went at such an early age.. And I even suspect that he might have regretted joining that young later, since he tells Jon to wait a few years, while Jon was onnly a few months away of turning 15, whereas Benjen had been 15 at the oldest when he joined.



#17 BearQueen87

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:07 PM

Well, Benjen was interesting in the NW ever since Harrenhal, so I believe that it was always his plan to join the NW, eventually. But after the war, he joined very quickly, while the succession of the Starks was anything but certain (only Ned and an infant heir remained). So I guess he either joined because he had been actively involved in a part of the war (and my thoughts go out most strongly to having helped Lyanna sneak off with Rhaegar, obviously without realising what the consequences could be, or would be. But then again, how could anyone have predicted that..?), or he joined because he knew the truth (about Jon, and thus the reasons why his family members died... all for Rhaegar's prophecy) and couldn't stand to be at Winterfell after that. And thus he left for the Wall.

 

Benjen had been interested in the Wall before, but I think it's telling that he went at such an early age.. And I even suspect that he might have regretted joining that young later, since he tells Jon to wait a few years, while Jon was onnly a few months away of turning 15, whereas Benjen had been 15 at the oldest when he joined.

 

I think it's both; and he either helped Lyanna sneak off or he knew Lyanna and Rhaegar were somehow in communication (as I think they must have been) and said nothing about it.



#18 Grizzly Mormont

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

he promised his sister something on her deathbed. if the promise was not to tell anyone about a child's true patentage, then there you have it.

Ned was not one to break vows.

#19 Merengues

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:44 PM

Jon needed to take one for the team... It was part of his uprbringing as the rightful king of westeros.



#20 Arya Weinergaryen

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

 

I think it's both; and he either helped Lyanna sneak off or he knew Lyanna and Rhaegar were somehow in communication (as I think they must have been) and said nothing about it.

 

 

 

I'd like to think he would have tried to stop Brandon?  Obviously communication logistics could have been problematic and once Arys had killed Rickon and Brandon there might have been no stopping the war.