Arya's warging ability

[Kienn]

Currently skinchanging skill easily goes

Arya > Bran >> Jon

Rickon is probably better than Jon as well but without more info it's hard to be sure.

I'd put Robb on par with Jon prior to his death.

So speculatively it's

Arya > Bran > Rickon >> Jon = Robb > Sansa

Unless Bran actually starts working on animals again instead of trees I don't see him surpassing Arya. Jon will likely gain a lot while recovering from his wounding/death.

[Tolkiennerd]

Currently skinchanging skill easily goes

Arya > Bran >> Jon

Rickon is probably better than Jon as well but without more info it's hard to be sure.

I'd put Robb on par with Jon prior to his death.

So speculatively it's

Arya > Bran > Rickon >> Jon = Robb > Sansa

Unless Bran actually starts working on animals again instead of trees I don't see him surpassing Arya. Jon will likely gain a lot while recovering from his wounding/death.

How do you determine that Arya wargs better than Bran? Bran's a greenseer for crying out loud. I understand that she warged a cat, which is hard, but I don't remember Bran ever trying to warg a cat yet, so we can't compare that. She wargs Nymeria on a different continent, but if Bran was in Essos and Summer was in Westeros, I'm pretty sure he'd still be able to warg him.

Now, Bran has warged a person (which is very difficult according to Varamyr), warged weirwoods (which I speculate is probably one of the hardest things to warg, since Varamyr never even mentioned anyone being able to warg weirwoods), and he has been specially chosen by the three eyed crow. Pretty sure Bran beats everyone else at warging.

[Kienn]

How do you determine that Arya wargs better than Bran? Bran's a greenseer for crying out loud. I understand that she warged a cat, which is hard, but I don't remember Bran ever trying to warg a cat yet, so we can't compare that. She wargs Nymeria on a different continent, but if Bran was in Essos and Summer was in Westeros, I'm pretty sure he'd still be able to warg him.

Now, Bran has warged a person (which is very difficult according to Varamyr), warged weirwoods (which I speculate is probably one of the hardest things to warg, since Varamyr never even mentioned anyone being able to warg weirwoods), and he has been specially chosen by the three eyed crow. Pretty sure Bran beats everyone else at warging.

Arya maintains control of her own body while skinchanging the cat in order to dodge the Kindly Man. This is something Bran has never done. Hodor is human, but likely weak-minded or part-giant so Hodor vs Cat on their own are a wash.

Weirwoods are a separate ability for greenseers. Skill in greenseeing would go like this

Bran >>> Jojen > Rickon >> Arya = Jon = Robb = Sansa = 0.

Bran may have the potential to be better than Arya, but not necessarily(just because a greenseer is a rare skinchanger doesn't mean they're always stronger than all other skinchangers) and nothing he has done so far makes him better than her.

[Tolkiennerd]

Arya maintains control of her own body while skinchanging the cat in order to dodge the Kindly Man. This is something Bran has never done. Hodor is human, but likely weak-minded or part-giant so Hodor vs Cat on their own are a wash.

Weirwoods are a separate ability for greenseers. Skill in greenseeing would go like this

Bran >>> Jojen > Rickon >> Arya = Jon = Robb = Sansa = 0.

Bran may have the potential to be better than Arya, but not necessarily(just because a greenseer is a rare skinchanger doesn't mean they're always stronger than all other skinchangers) and nothing he has done so far makes him better than her.

I see your point. I always thought it was implied that greenseers were automatically better skinchangers. However, I'm not sure that we should just assume Arya's better. I think right now, they're more equal. And with the training Bran will receive from Brynden, it's a pretty safe bet that he'll end up being the best skinchanger of the Starks (or just the plain best living skinchanger if Brynden is training Bran because he's expecting to die)

[Wizz-The-Smith]

How do you determine that Arya wargs better than Bran? Bran's a greenseer for crying out loud. I understand that she warged a cat, which is hard, but I don't remember Bran ever trying to warg a cat yet, so we can't compare that. She wargs Nymeria on a different continent, but if Bran was in Essos and Summer was in Westeros, I'm pretty sure he'd still be able to warg him.

Now, Bran has warged a person (which is very difficult according to Varamyr), warged weirwoods (which I speculate is probably one of the hardest things to warg, since Varamyr never even mentioned anyone being able to warg weirwoods), and he has been specially chosen by the three eyed crow. Pretty sure Bran beats everyone else at warging.

:agree: To add to that, Bran also warged a Raven when with the 3 eyed crow. And Varamyr Sixskins notes that Jon is a strong Skinchanger,

but not yet trained. So Arya IMO has a way to go to match Bran, but might be on a par with Jon.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Very true, but it happened at night so there's a chance that it was too dark for him to see. There's also a chance that she only warged for a split second and was able to see him. There really aren't enough details about the encounter to say for sure. My only question about the scenario is, how is it that Arya, who just learned that she could warg moments ago, would be able to warg so effortlessly when her greenseer brother, an experienced warg, is unable to multi-task in such a way. She could be a prodigy, I suppose, but....

Like I said, not enough details about the encounter to be certain.

I'm still reading the thread, so I'm not sure if this was addressed, but I wouldn't exactly say that this time with the cat and the Kindly Man was the first time she realized she could see through the eyes of a cat, this one time and only moments ago. IIRC, while she is doing her tour as Blind Beth, she does mention how, first, that it does seem if cats seek her out and she even wonders if they recognize her scent in general from when she was Cat of the Canals. Also, as she is doing the turn begging as Beth in the inn or restaurant, she does think about how there is a cat and there have been times that she has been able to actually sit in the Inn and see through the cats eyes and observe other patrons. I'd have to go look up the specific quotes and details, but I took it to mean that it had happened to her on previous trips out and about and that this time, a cat followed her home and she watched through it's eyes, through the window, as The Kindly Man did the little playful attack on her. That's my memory of the situation anyway.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Good point. I'm inclined to think Arya is gaining a lot of traction though. I honestly thought she was dead, but coming back with a diverse warging ability means she's stronger than before. And that seems to be a theme with ASOIAF, coming back from death, stronger.

Arya could be AAR

What? I'm not sure I follow you, are you saying Arya is dead already? Dead and what, resurrected somehow?

[mushroomshirt]

Now, Bran has warged a person (which is very difficult according to Varamyr), warged weirwoods (which I speculate is probably one of the hardest things to warg, since Varamyr never even mentioned anyone being able to warg weirwoods), and he has been specially chosen by the three eyed crow. Pretty sure Bran beats everyone else at warging.

[Arya Targaryen]

Arya maintains control of her own body while skinchanging the cat in order to dodge the Kindly Man. This is something Bran has never done. Hodor is human, but likely weak-minded or part-giant so Hodor vs Cat on their own are a wash.

[Kienn]

With that logic, Jon and Arya should be equal, as Jon also wargs Ghost while maintains control of his own body. Actually he does that more often than Arya (who does that twice: once in the Inn and once afterwards with the KOM), and Jon is using a wider spectrum of abilities: taste and smell and inner "feelings" like hunger.

 

Jon isn't warging anything, he's just getting bleed over of sensory info from Ghost, which Bran and Arya both experience as well. This is different from intentionally getting access and using it to your advantage (as Arya w/ cat's vision).

[Arya Targaryen]

 

Jon isn't warging anything, he's just getting bleed over of sensory info from Ghost, which Bran and Arya both experience as well. This is different from intentionally getting access and using it to your advantage (as Arya w/ cat's vision).

Where is the proof that Arya is using the cat intentionally? And what do you mean Jon is not warging while smelling and tasting whatever Ghost does?

When Jon goes to the weirwoods and sends Tom Barleycorn to look around, he is aware, because he smells him, that Tom is back. That is the same level of warging that Arya is doing. And I cannot recall Bran having the same experience with Summer (feeling, smelling, tasting... without completely slipping his skin into Summer).

[soulnado]

I have a warging question not exclusive to Arya but can proficient skinchangers "feel/sense" other wargs, similarly how the immortals from the film highlander sense each other,

just a thought

[Arya Targaryen]

I have a warging question not exclusive to Arya but can proficient skinchangers "feel/sense" other wargs, similarly how the immortals from the film highlander sense each other, just a thought

Yes they can, but not like in the Highlander movies, but it's like when they see another skinchanger, they just know that he is one, too. Like how Varamyr knew Jon was a warg, and Jon also knew Borroq was a skinchanger.

[TemtnF8]

Yes they can, but not like in the Highlander movies, but it's like when they see another skinchanger, they just know that he is one, too. Like how Varamyr knew Jon was a warg, and Jon also knew Borroq was a skinchanger.

Also of note is that they recognize each other even in animal form. Bran and Varamyr recognize each other as skinchangers when Summer and One-Eye face off, and Varamyr is already dead and living only in the old wolf at that point..

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Where is the proof that Arya is using the cat intentionally? And what do you mean Jon is not warging while smelling and tasting whatever Ghost does?

When Jon goes to the weirwoods and sends Tom Barleycorn to look around, he is aware, because he smells him, that Tom is back. That is the same level of warging that Arya is doing. And I cannot recall Bran having the same experience with Summer (feeling, smelling, tasting... without completely slipping his skin into Summer).

She specifically uses the cat to find out who is staging the assaults on her in the Temple during her training as a blind girl. This is how she finally learns it is the KM that sneaks up on her for the stick fights.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Jon isn't warging anything, he's just getting bleed over of sensory info from Ghost, which Bran and Arya both experience as well. This is different from intentionally getting access and using it to your advantage (as Arya w/ cat's vision).

Warging often happens when they are asleep. Jon isn't only getting sensory info, he is warging when asleep. The proof of this is that when Ghost gets attacked by Orell's eagle, Jon wakes screaming. This also happens to Varamyr when Melissandra burns the eagle he inherited from Orell, sending Varamyr temporarily insane. This is a hallowing experience for Skinchangers, and Jon's screaming serves as a clue that Jon is actually warging Ghost in his sleep.

The point that Arya has skinchanged a cat, therefore one more beast than Jon is valid, but IMO doesn't point to the fact that she is a stronger Skinchanger than Jon. We have evidence from Varamyr that Jon is a strong Skinchanger, but untrained in his ability. I feel the arcs on their abilities are on a similar path, the difference being that Jon is rejecting this notion while Arya is perhaps embracing it.

[Kienn]

Warging often happens when they are asleep. Jon isn't only getting sensory info, he is warging when asleep. The proof of this is that when Ghost gets attacked by Orell's eagle, Jon wakes screaming. This also happens to Varamyr when Melissandra burns the eagle he inherited from Orell, sending Varamyr temporarily insane. This is a hallowing experience for Skinchangers, and Jon's screaming serves as a clue that Jon is actually warging Ghost in his sleep.

The point that Arya has skinchanged a cat, therefore one more beast than Jon is valid, but IMO doesn't point to the fact that she is a stronger Skinchanger than Jon. We have evidence from Varamyr that Jon is a strong Skinchanger, but untrained in his ability. I feel the arcs on their abilities are on a similar path, the difference being that Jon is rejecting this notion while Arya is perhaps embracing it.

Bran and Arya both have wolf-dreams as well (which again I consider separate from conscious warging - as they're unconscious). As Varamyr hasn't commented on Bran or Arya I'm not sure how his comment on Jon helps anything.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

Kienn

I was responding primarily to your comment that '' Jon wasn't warging anything '' , again IMO all the wolf dreams are the characters warging. As for whether Varamyr's comment on Jon helps anything, it gives us a gauge on Jon's abilities compared to the strongest known Skinchanger within the Wildlings / North of wall. Whereas Arya's story arc gives us the clues through her connection with the cat [ admittedly conscious ] , and Hagon's thoughts that cats are creatures to be avoided, therefore promoting Arya's ability.

They are both obviously powerful Skinchangers, but I feel it is a different way of explaining their arcs. Arya has no Skinchanger to compare her talent, so the cat link was established. Jon has Varamyr, and a prologue POV, so the link was explained. Therefore promoting that they both have '' Strong abilities ''

Your opinion on '' conscious warging '' is a fair point. But I would like to point out that Bran consciously warged a Raven when with The 3 eyed crow, and the storyline has repeated that Jon is reluctant to accept his ability, even with offers of help [ Melissandra ] , so this could explain his lack of conscious warging.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

Jon isn't warging anything, he's just getting bleed over of sensory info from Ghost, which Bran and Arya both experience as well. This is different from intentionally getting access and using it to your advantage (as Arya w/ cat's vision).

John and Arya are both using their host animals to expand their senses. If Arya had made the cat attack the Kindly Man that would be Bran level skinchanging. If John had made Ghost pee on Tom that too would be Bran level. I think the cat just followed the blind girl home as stray cats will do.

Does it make me a geek if I point out that warging only applies to dogs and wolves?

[Kienn]

Does it make me a geek if I point out that warging only applies to dogs and wolves?

No, because "warging" isn't actually a word at all. The books only use "warg" as a noun for skinchangers that control wolves, or the wolves themselves while being controlled.