Why do The Iron Islands so desperately want independence?

[sertravisredbeard]

For the same reason the Northerners want independence.

The North wanted independence because they had two Wardens of the North executed in a row by the crazy despots on the Iron Throne. They were dissatisfied with their kings. The Iron Islanders are just jealous of all the hot ladies the soft greenlanders get to go home to every night.

[Rhaegar the Dragon Prince]

Harrenhal... I believe all the IB are linked to this tragedy in some way and want to re-ascend to greatness, or make others pay for their tragic loss. Harrenhal was basically nuked by dragons.

I don't think this would be is due to the fact that none of the Ironborn characters really mention it.

I think it's because they are a completely different culture and look down upon those from 'the greenlands'.

[LordStoneheart]

So they can pillage plunder, rifle, and loot, kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot.

[LordBloodraven]

With independence, they can feel great again, reave and pillage all along the coasts of Westeros, taking people as thralls and salt wives and making them farm their own land.

[Universal Sword Donor]

It's ridiculously simple.

What does the Iron Islands gain by being in the 7 Kingdoms?

What do they gain by not being in the 7 Kingdoms?

King Bob *put* them *down*. He only gave a shit because they rebelled. If they had been raiding like pirates in the stepstones, he wouldn't have activated the wardens. It would have been a small scale work unless they tried to start conquering.

[joluoto2]

The Ironborn dream of a age long since gone. They are not conquerors anymore, just raiders. Even Euron has problems with the attitude of his men, who consider the Campaign a Great Pillage where they go to take riches and women, and then return home, with no real ambition to actually stay and rule over the lands they raided. The age when the Ironborn could build empires, like under the Greyirons and the Hoares are long since gone. There are fewer Ironborn, and not several feuding kingdoms and petty kingdoms to harass. The unified Westeros is simply completely out of their league.

But the Ironborn really has no place else to look than backwards. Looking into the future they'll only see their inevitable extinction.

[Mike Scott]

The North wanted independence because they had two Wardens of the North executed in a row by the crazy despots on the Iron Throne.

Or maybe three, since it seems quite likely that Rickard Stark predeceased Brandon by a few minutes, and so Brandon was also briefly Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

[Mithras]

Gee, I wonder. Let me see:

- The people of the iron islands are living in abject misery, with about 50% child mortality rates, short lifespans and general terrible living conditions

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

- By this time, the only alternative to a short, miserable life was before Aegon, i.e. when the Ironborn were independent

- This comes on top of having a different culture (and no, the Old Way is not the end-all-be-all of that) and religion from the greenlanders

It should come as no surprise then, that they would want to return to that state, rather than live short, miserable lives trying to eke out a living by fishing, mining iron or trying to farm their craggy islands.

You think you know better than Rodrik Harlaw?

“This dream of kingship is a madness in our blood. I told your father so the first time he rose, and it is more true now than it was then. It’s land we need, not crowns. With Stannis Baratheon and Tywin Lannister contending for the Iron Throne, we have a rare chance to improve our lot. Let us take one side or the other, help them to victory with our fleets, and claim the lands we need from a grateful king.”

“Your father had more courage than sense. The Old Way served the isles well when we were one small kingdom amongst many, but Aegon’s Conquest put an end to that. Balon refused to see what was plain before him. The Old Way died with Black Harren and his sons.”

[Lord Reaver]

You think you know better than Rodrik Harlaw?

Eh, no. That quote basically supports everything I said:

- The Ironborn need land, this is because they're pretty much barely able to avoid starvation, with concurrent catstrophic mortality rates among children (when the ruling House looses 50% of it's children young, imagine how the lower classes are doing).

- Aegon was the one who put the Ironborn in this dire position by taking away all means for them to support themselves (both taking the conquered lands AND outlawing reaving).

The question was what made the Ironborn want independence, not what was the best way of going about getting it, or what was the best way of solving their situation. There I might be more in agreement with the Reader than with Balon (though I think he's way too optimistic about a greenlander king giving them anything out of gratitude), but that's clearly not the issue at hand here.

[UnViserion]

Or maybe three, since it seems quite likely that Rickard Stark predeceased Brandon by a few minutes, and so Brandon was also briefly Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

:(

[Sullen]

They live in misery ever since Aegon's Conquest and they want to get out of it, simple as that.

[Dead Wolf]

The IB believe themselves to be superior to other men so they have no desire to be ruled by any than one of their own.

[scotcat]

Their culture has been in slow decline for centuries. They've gone from being conquerors to raiders with very little in the way of resources. When they look at their future all they can see is their inevitable destruction. Worse yet, they knew what they were in the past. They have nothing left but to try and capture their past glory.

What do they have to lose by wanting independence?

[Winterfell is Burning]

But the Ironborn really has no place else to look than backwards. Looking into the future they'll only see their inevitable extinction.

Not extinction, but CHANGE. Like the Wildlings, their way of life is unsustainable, and not just because of the White Walkers. They'll never progress as long as they don't try something new- focus on trade and on getting land, forget raiding and pillaging and raping.

[joluoto2]

Not extinction, but CHANGE. Like the Wildlings, their way of life is unsustainable, and not just because of the White Walkers. They'll never progress as long as they don't try something new- focus on trade and on getting land, forget raiding and pillaging and raping.

They will never get land, and they have nothing but iron to trade, and they have traded iron for centuries. It has gotten them nowhere. They are doomed to go extinct. These Rocks can't sustain them.

Or maybe they should just do what Farwynd suggested. Take their chances and all sail West.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

- The reason for this is the oppressive regime imposed on them by Aegon, where he not only took by far the most fertile part of their kingdom, but also outlawed their main remaining source of wealth without bothering to think of replacing it.

idonwannastartadiscussionbutthisiswhatdanydid

inslaversbayandnoonegoesaroundsayingaegonwasmad... la la la ♫

[Lord Reaver]

andnoonegoesaroundsayingaegonwasmad

This is where you are mistaken. He was a bloody tyrant.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

inslaversbayandnoonegoesaroundsayingaegonwasmad... la la la ♫

You sure of that?

Well, actually I consider him a tyrant and an asshole, not mad, but the sentiment is the same.

[toffeejay]

Would any group of islands in our own world want to be ruled by people of a different religion or culture?

[Lord Reaver]

Would any group of islands in our own world want to be ruled by people of a different religion or culture?

Quite. Might as well ask "why does Britain so desperately want independence", or Ireland etc. etc. etc.