The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones: Season Four (Bluray)
Game of Thrones: Season Four (Bluray)
Amazon.com
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Why is Jon more popular than Daenerys?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
412 replies to this topic

#1 FireAndBlood.

FireAndBlood.

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 180 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:04 AM

*puts up shield*

Ok, this is a genuine question, because I'm kind of baffled by how many people on here wish for Dany to die a most painful death and for Jon to be King by series end.

 

What am I missing? As a ruler, Jon was equally shit. The crux of both of their storylines in ADwD and ASoS is that they both made some pretty bad decisions with very good intentions and neither really thought about the ramifications. Does it really just boil down to the fact that Dany's smashing of the slave trade was on a much larger scale than Jon allowing the wildlings to pass through the Wall and, as a result, the ripples were larger? Or is it because of the destructive potential of her dragons?

 

Please try not to let this descend into a Dany hate thread.



#2 David Selig

David Selig

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,616 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:06 AM

His gender.



#3 Mikkel

Mikkel

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,163 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:07 AM

Well for one thing, Jon doesn't have this annoying tendency towards entitlement, nor a desire to rule a place he has never set foot so strong he'll wage bloody war to get it. As of yet, anyways  :eek:



#4 Ingelheim

Ingelheim

    I've never paid my debts.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,680 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:09 AM

His gender.

 

That's a big LOL David...and quite insulting.



#5 Apple Martini

Apple Martini

    The Snarker on the Wall

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,982 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:16 AM

When Jon starts committing torture and executing dozens of people of dubious guilt, I reserve the right to root for him less.

 

I also dispute the idea that Jon was an equally shitty ruler. For one thing, he was chosen to lead, he didn't just declare that he was the king now and just deal with it. He took proactive steps to ensure that the people on the Wall would get fed, by taking out the loan with the Iron Bank. The wildlings south of the Wall are at least attempting to assimilate and making strides, despite the prejudice of idiots like Bowen Marsh. Castles that haven't been manned for hundreds of years are now guarded and being repaired. Thousands of potential enemies and potential wights are now allies. Jon took hostages and the deterrence worked, perhaps because he wasn't stupid enough to outright say that he'd never be able to hurt them. Jon is aware that his primary opponents on the Wall are Marsh and his cronies; he's not completely oblivious like Dany is with the Green Grace.

 

About the only thing Jon did that could be considered truly ill-advised was sending the mission to Hardhome. But I'm also willing to bet that if he had said, "No, sorry, can't help" and then left them there, he'd get shit for being cold-hearted and deserting people. It's a no-win situation.

 

That's a big LOL David...and quite insulting.

 

It's all they have to fall back on and they know it.


Edited by Apple Martini, 13 July 2014 - 09:25 AM.


#6 JonCon's Red Beard

JonCon's Red Beard

    The one with the Targaryen Entitlement™

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,870 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

Wait until he finds out he's a Targaryen...

Not really, but he's also very whiny at the start of the series. And at the end, they both ended up pretty much the same. They tried to change the society surrounding them and failed: he is now impersonating a porcupine, she's got diarrhoea. Neither is better than the other.

#7 FireAndBlood.

FireAndBlood.

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 180 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

His gender.

 

 

That's a big LOL David...and quite insulting.

 

I think this does play a part in it, though. I mean, I'm not saying people who prefer Jon are misogynists at all, but in general people are much more forgiving of male characters than they are of female characters. It's the same in celebrity culture, too. Look at Robert Downey Jr for example. If he were a woman then no way would he still be working. Of course there are exceptions like Justin Bieber, but most of his hate stems from the fact that he sounded like a girl when he first started and the fact that he was so androgynous looking, both of which are criticisms he still gets today. If he was more butch his career would have taken a completely different path.

 

Well for one thing, Jon doesn't have this annoying tendency towards entitlement, nor a desire to rule a place he has never set foot so strong he'll wage bloody war to get it. As of yet, anyways  :eek:

Ok, but think about why she wants to take the Iron Throne. The dynasty she plans to overthrow not only destroyed and exiled her family, but still tried to have her and her brother assassinated years later.



#8 Queen of Whores

Queen of Whores

    Pimp of all Sultry Dornish Ladies

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,252 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:21 AM

Okay, I know I'm gonna piss of some people with this list, but whatever.

1. He doesn't have an entitled and arrogant attitude
2. Never calls fan-favourite characters "usurper's dogs"
3. Never kills anyone in brutal and slow ways
4. His decisions haven't resulted in the deaths of hundreds, even thousands
5. He's modest and introverted
6. He never claims to be a dragon, or use this as a blanket excuse to do anything
7. Never ordered the torture of anyone, much less little girls
8. Everything he's done has been honourable and dutiful
9. He has actually earned his rank and title
10. He fights in his own battles; he doesn't just send people to their deaths (for example, he wanted to lead the expedition to Hardhome, full-well knowing it was pretty much a suicide mission)

*ducks for cover and holds breathe*

(Btw, I'm not really a fan of either character, so I look at them both rather objectively and without much bias).

Edited by Queen of Whores, 13 July 2014 - 09:23 AM.


#9 Apple Martini

Apple Martini

    The Snarker on the Wall

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,982 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:21 AM

I think this does play a part in it, though.

 

And how much support would Dany have if she were a guy, doing what she does? A large part of her appeal, especially on the show, is this "girl power rah" schtick. The gender thing runs both ways, and you'd better believe there are people who root for her because she's a girl. The "you're just sexist" argument has always struck me as just a lazy excuse not to have to address the many legitimate criticisms of her. Are there sexist assessments of her, sure. Is "I dislike her more than Jon because I'm pretty sure she's executed at least a few innocent people and tortured people too" a sexist assessment?

 

 


Ok, but think about why she wants to take the Iron Throne. The dynasty she plans to overthrow not only destroyed and exiled her family, but still tried to have her and her brother assassinated years later.

 

They were gathering an army of Dothraki and actively planning to invade Westeros. Let's not pretend like they were just minding their own innocent business and big meanie Robert Baratheon sent someone to kill them for the lulz.


Edited by Apple Martini, 13 July 2014 - 09:23 AM.


#10 Cas Stark

Cas Stark

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,941 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:22 AM

It boils down to Jon's plan, overall was a good one, workable, sensible, he has the tools to make it work.  Jon is a responsible leader who generally thinks through his decisions, is consistent in his actions and decisions, minus hardhome which was a bad decision and based on sentimentality. 

 

Dany's plan, despite her good intentions, was never a plan to begin with, she never devises much of a plan and her decisions are not good, workable or sensible, and then there is the whole torture, killing of whole social classes of people, and collective punishment issues.  Dany is a poor decision maker who fails to follow through, whose vision and decision are woefully inconsistent and who makes her decisions almost always based on her in the moment feelings instead of any long term goals.

 

That is the reason, not gender and not dragons, not even her sense of entitlement.



#11 SeanF

SeanF

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,230 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:24 AM

Jon is a better person, clearly.

#12 OnionAhaiReborn

OnionAhaiReborn

    coprophagously a-grin

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,415 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

I think this does play a part in it, though. I mean, I'm not saying people who prefer Jon are misogynists at all, but in general people are much more forgiving of male characters than they are of female characters. It's the same in celebrity culture, too. Look at Robert Downey Jr for example. If he were a woman then no way would he still be working. Of course there are exceptions like Justin Bieber, but most of his hate stems from the fact that he sounded like a girl when he first started and the fact that he was so androgynous looking, both of which are criticisms he still gets today. If he was more butch his career would have taken a completely different path.

 

Comparisons to celebrity culture will become relevant when a celebrity starts sacking cities and ordering mass crucifixions.

 

It truly is not hard to see why Jon is less controversial than Dany unless you're absolutely intent on papering over Dany's flaws. Even if you come down on the side of agreeing with Dany's actions, it's willfully obtuse to pretend you don't see why they're incredibly controversial.



#13 PirateVergo

PirateVergo

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 556 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

 

 

 As a ruler, Jon was equally shit. 

Jon was a much better leader than Dany, the only difference is that Jon had no one to save his ass when his brothers came to kill him.

Dany deserved everything that happened to her, she failed as a ruler and made stupid decisions unlike Jon.

Blame Bowen Marsh for being a retard not Jon, he actually tried to talk with him and told him that the real deal was the WW, but Bowen drunkard didn't

listen.

Jon had no one to tell him what to do, no Barristan no Jorah, Jon did everything by himself and won the respect and the trust of Stannis Baratheon the rightful king of the 7 kingdoms.

 

 

Oh yea also Jon has a way better sense of justice than Dany.

He don't crucify people or burn a woman because she killed the leader of  rapists savages


Edited by PirateVergo, 13 July 2014 - 09:26 AM.


#14 Apple Martini

Apple Martini

    The Snarker on the Wall

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,982 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:26 AM

Comparisons to celebrity culture will become relevant when a celebrity starts sacking cities and ordering mass crucifixions.

 

I'm pretty sure this is part of Bieber's European tour next year.



#15 Red Wedding Cake

Red Wedding Cake

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 505 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:27 AM

Because Jons dead already, and the others could pop up any moment, and he's interacting with Stannis; while Daeny is still running around in Mereen still waiting to get to Westeros?

For the record, I favor Daenerys over Jon. I hope she makes it through the Dothraki better than ever.

#16 Ingelheim

Ingelheim

    I've never paid my debts.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,680 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:27 AM

Because Jons dead already, and the others could pop up any moment, and he's interacting with Stannis; while Daeny is still running around in Mereen still waiting to get to Westeros?

For the record, I favor Daenerys over Jon. I hope she makes it through the Dothraki better than ever.

 

Yeah. Nothing to do with mass crucifixions.



#17 Royce da Bronze Yohn

Royce da Bronze Yohn

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:27 AM

The combination of her sense of entitlement regarding the Iron Throne, her arrogance (I am the blood of the Dragon!), and her ignorance about Westeros and the realities of an invasion. 

 

If thats not enough, the HBO Dany pisses me off even more.  I wouldn't mind if Drogon went rogue and charred her.



#18 Bog Devil of Greywater

Bog Devil of Greywater

    Squire

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 198 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

Adding to what Apple Martini has said-

 

Jon also has the luxury of deriving some of his popularity from his family. Ned and Robb are gone from the series, but the love for them is easily transferred to Jon.

 

Dany has Mad King Aerys as a father. Nobody passes less popularity to his children than Aerys.



#19 Queen of Whores

Queen of Whores

    Pimp of all Sultry Dornish Ladies

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,252 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:30 AM

Adding to what Apple Martini has said-
 
Jon also has the luxury of deriving some of his popularity from his family. Ned and Robb are gone from the series, but the love for them is easily transferred to Jon.
 
Dany has Mad King Aerys as a father. Nobody passes less popularity to his children than Aerys.


I don't think just having them as family counts. Jon actively tries to be like Ned, ie. honourable and dutiful and just.

#20 PirateVergo

PirateVergo

    Noble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 556 posts

Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:30 AM

 

 

If thats not enough, the HBO Dany pisses me off even more.

I agree HBO Dany is my most hated character in a show by far, I can't stand her cockyness and the titles