Val = Shiera Seastar?

[have mercedene]

First time poster, and starting out with a theory that may be really out-there. It's something I came up with while poring over the Tormund/Val/Old Gods thread.

Could Val = Sheira Seastar? Or be related somehow, possibly a decedent?

SS was one of the Targaryen "Great Bastards," the one who was loved by Brynden Rivers, who we know is obviously still kickin' around at the present. If he made it, couldn't she have as well? They were both said to have been involved in "sorcery," so perhaps SS was a greenseer and a warg too. SS was also rumored to have used sorcery to stay hot, which could also be why she's not all falling apart like BR. Or, if SS is a skin-changer, she could have taken over Val's body.

The eye color thing - SS had a blue eye and a green one. Val was described as at first having grey eyes, then they changed to blue...one could then just as easily change to green. Also this: "the light of the half-moon turned Val's honey-blonde hair a pale silver." SS had silver-gold hair.

Val dressing in white - SS always wore light colors (ivory, silver...).

SS never married, but was said to have hooked up a bunch. No marriage for Val, and it's implied IIRC that she was fooling around with Jarl, there could have been others. All the boys loved SS...a whole lot of people seem to be beyond captivated by Val.

Val's insistence that she's not a princess. Neither was SS.

Through the weirwood tree Bran sees an old woman dressed in white (with white hair) apparently doing something magic-y in Winterfell's godswood. Maybe this is SS and was a foreshadow to her showing up later somehow.

The weirwood brooch Val always wears. Those greenseers and their weirwoods...

Val having that "all-knowing" quality. SS would probably have seen a lot (just like Rivers) is this theory proves correct.

Now this is just me, but I am fully convinced that R+L=J until I read otherwise. If Jon Snow is a Targ and Val=SS, that could explain the connection they have. To me it seems like Jon is attracted to Val in a way, and Val appears to be sort of protecting him. Val/SS could really be the one who saves Jon (if he ends up surviving).

Val's connection to ghost. Maybe because of the warg thing. Also, Ghost is an albino. So was Brynden Rivers. Hmmm.

So anyway...that's all I got. This theory may barely have a leg to stand on but it was fun to think about. I searched the internets for any similar ideas and someone on reddit said they though Val was Sheira Seastar but didn't go into why they thought so.

[#Fire and Blood]

I think she is definitely still around somewhere. But I am not convinced she is Val more than Quaithe, Melisandre, or even Old Nan

[Julian Rayne]

I think she is definitely still around somewhere. But I am not convinced she is Val more than Quaithe, Melisandre, or even Old Nan

Old Nan? Does that mean that Hodor is a secret Targaryen?

[have mercedene]

I like the Old Nan idea, but isn't she (supposedly) in Bran's vision of the girl kissing a tall knight (Duncan the Tall)? Or is that also just an idea.

[Prince of the North]

I think IF Shiera Seastar is still kickin' around the story at all pretending to be someone else then it's Quaithe.

[SunflashJT]

I like the Old Nan idea, but isn't she (supposedly) in Bran's vision of the girl kissing a tall knight (Duncan the Tall)? Or is that also just an idea.

I would imagine that Duncan was kissing one of the 'She Wolves of Winterfell' not SS.

I honestly don't like the idea of her kickin around still, she was a love interest to BR and he really isn't survived. We also have to keep in mind that she lived 100 years ago and she wasn't at the wall like Maester Aemon. I feel she was a secondary character that will have no future in the story to come.

[Hos the Hostage]

Old Nan? Does that mean that Hodor is a secret Targaryen

Please, no more secret Targs!

If anything, I would accept if Val was a descendant of Shiera Seastar and/or Bloodraven. Won't that be sufficient to explain her looks and suspected magical abilities?

[SunflashJT]

Please, no more secret Targs!

If anything, I would accept if Val was a descendant of Shiera Seastar and/or Bloodraven. Won't that be sufficient to explain her looks and suspected magical abilities?

I LIKE IT!!! Lets go with that!!

[Mace Cooterian]

First, this is a response to the query posted:

Could Val = Sheira Seastar? Or be related somehow, possibly a decedent?

And, including this one response from those just posted:

I would imagine that Duncan was kissing one of the 'She Wolves of Winterfell' not SS.

I honestly don't like the idea of her kickin around still, she was a love interest to BR and he really isn't survived. We also have to keep in mind that she lived 100 years ago and she wasn't at the wall like Maester Aemon. I feel she was a secondary character that will have no future in the story to come.

Not sure if I would go as far to say that she will have no future in the story to come, but certainly she is a secondary character.

A conventional wisdom of Val is that she is a priestess of ice (for the lack of a better term). I wouldn't suggest that she is on par with a Melissandre (Fire) but her standing (North of the Wall) suggests something more than the average by-stander.

As for Shiera Seastar; if we consider for moment that she was (is) of similar age to one Brynden Rivers (a.k.a. Bloodraven; 3EC) then she would need something (of a magical sense) in order to survive beyond the limits of the natural life. Bloodraven has the advantage of the "weirwoods" that have sustain him for quite a few moons. SS would need an equally powerrful "mo jo" to survive the same time period.

Besides....if Val was SS and considering that both she and BR are both North of the wall. Wouldn't you think that they would have come into contact before now?

[Aetta]

As for Shiera Seastar; if we consider for moment that she was (is) of similar age to one Brynden Rivers (a.k.a. Bloodraven; 3EC) then she would need something (of a magical sense) in order to survive beyond the limits of the natural life. Bloodraven has the advantage of the "weirwoods" that have sustain him for quite a few moons. SS would need an equally powerrful "mo jo" to survive the same time period.

Shiera's mother bathed in blood to maintain her youthful appearance, and Sheira was into the dark arts. No way of knowing how she could preserve herself.

Shiera's story doesn't really foreshadow her being north of the Wall, in fact it doesn't even foreshadow her having any interest whatsoever in chasing down BR so much as he would be the one pursuing her. It was he, after all, who had the infatuation with her, and she just liked to toy with him.

Quaithe, maybe. Mel's mama? I like that one...but not Val.

Val is a little too spunky and wildling-ish, whereas Shiera, I imagine, has the same sort of royal airs that all Targs seem to have. From what little we know of Shiera, her personality is not like Val's whatsoever. But then, what little we do know of Aegon's most beautiful bastard. Guess I'm just not feelin the Val thing is all.

[mediterraneo]

Old Nan? Does that mean that Hodor is a secret Targaryen?

Well, he'd be my favourite secret Targaryen, I promise.

[Aemond's Eye]

Shiera's mother bathed in blood to maintain her youthful appearance, and Sheira was into the dark arts. No way of knowing how she could preserve herself.

Shiera's story doesn't really foreshadow her being north of the Wall, in fact it doesn't even foreshadow her having any interest whatsoever in chasing down BR so much as he would be the one pursuing her. It was he, after all, who had the infatuation with her, and she just liked to toy with him.

Quaithe, maybe. Mel's mama? I like that one...but not Val.

Val is a little too spunky and wildling-ish, whereas Shiera, I imagine, has the same sort of royal airs that all Targs seem to have. From what little we know of Shiera, her personality is not like Val's whatsoever. But then, what little we do know of Aegon's most beautiful bastard. Guess I'm just not feelin the Val thing is all.

I always took the "Shiera bathes in blood" as lies and myths spreading. Just like how some folk in the books believe Robb turned into a wolf, or that Sansa turned into a winged wolf and fled KL.

[nickdt]

Shiera's mother bathed in blood to maintain her youthful appearance, and Sheira was into the dark arts. No way of knowing how she could preserve herself.

Shiera's story doesn't really foreshadow her being north of the Wall, in fact it doesn't even foreshadow her having any interest whatsoever in chasing down BR so much as he would be the one pursuing her. It was he, after all, who had the infatuation with her, and she just liked to toy with him.

Quaithe, maybe. Mel's mama? I like that one...but not Val.

Val is a little too spunky and wildling-ish, whereas Shiera, I imagine, has the same sort of royal airs that all Targs seem to have. From what little we know of Shiera, her personality is not like Val's whatsoever. But then, what little we do know of Aegon's most beautiful bastard. Guess I'm just not feelin the Val thing is all.

Shiera's mother bathed in blood. What! Is Lyanna Stark the mother of SS.

[Elia Sand]

There are way too many Shiera Seastar theories out there. And if Val really is SS, then who is Dalla?

If SS is still alive, then she's Quaithe.

[nickdt]

I think its no coincidence that we know the years the male bastards died, but not hers. She is still around, i think.

[Aetta]

I like the Old Nan idea, but isn't she (supposedly) in Bran's vision of the girl kissing a tall knight (Duncan the Tall)? Or is that also just an idea.

Just an idea. That could've been Tanselle.

[Aetta]

Shiera's mother bathed in blood to maintain her youthful appearance, and Sheira was into the dark arts. No way of knowing how she could preserve herself.

Shiera's story doesn't really foreshadow her being north of the Wall, in fact it doesn't even foreshadow her having any interest whatsoever in chasing down BR so much as he would be the one pursuing her. It was he, after all, who had the infatuation with her, and she just liked to toy with him.

Quaithe, maybe. Mel's mama? I like that one...but not Val.

Val is a little too spunky and wildling-ish, whereas Shiera, I imagine, has the same sort of royal airs that all Targs seem to have. From what little we know of Shiera, her personality is not like Val's whatsoever. But then, what little we do know of Aegon's most beautiful bastard. Guess I'm just not feelin the Val thing is all.

*duplicate

[sleath56]

There are way too many Shiera Seastar theories out there. And if Val really is SS, then who is Dalla?

If SS is still alive, then she's Quaithe.

It's 'cause everyone is too enamoured with that portrait Amok drew of her. :p

Though with such high expectations, she's like to be Anne of Cleves of ASOIAF.