Did Littlefinger truly love Cat?

[Zoravar Singh]

Do you people think he truly loved Cat? Also, do you think he had knowledge about the Red Wedding, or perhaps was even involved in it?

I personally think he did love Cat, but this love didn't extend to ( most of her) children and her husband. And I guess he wasn't aware of the Red Wedding ( no evidence either way), but he is LF who knows almost everything, so you can never be sure.

[Loic]

Do you people think he truly loved Cat? Also, do you think he had knowledge about the Red Wedding, or perhaps was even involved in it?

I personally think he did love Cat, but this love didn't extend to ( most of her) children and her husband. And I guess he wasn't aware of the Red Wedding ( no evidence either way), but he is LF who knows almost everything, so you can never be sure.

Why should his love extend to the guy she married and her children?

LF wasn't involved in the Red Wedding, but surely he was on Ned's execution.

And given the fact that Sansa is both his desire and his pawn seems quite telling.

On one side, you can suspect that LF's love for Cat was due to what she represented rather than her own person (power, wealth). On the other, his tentative against Brandon seem to point that he genuinely felt something.

No matter how you see it, however, by the time the asoiaf events start Littlefinger has become older and worse: if there was love in the Petyr who challenged Brandon Stark to duel, the feeling that Littlefinger has for Sansa who "reminds him of her mother" is something else, since like Sansa notices "he didn't lift a finger for her" in months of abuse until his personal agenda required.

[Blue_Bard]

Littlefinger is too self-involved to love anyone. He had a crush on Cat, was infatuated with her, lusted after her, but he didn't love her. If he had been a 21st-century American college student instead of a turn-of-the-3rd century Westerosi Lord, he'd have gone all Elliot Rodger rather than challenging Brandon Stark.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

If you love someone you don't plot the death of their entire family. Even if your love for the person doesn't automatically extend to their family, you recognize that killing bunches of people they love will make them profoundly, desperately unhappy. If you actually love them, you don't want them to be profoundly, desperately unhappy. This should be obvious.

[Dornish Vinegar]

Littlefinger is too self-involved to love anyone. He had a crush on Cat, was infatuated with her, lusted after her, but he didn't love her. If he had been a 21st-century American college student instead of a turn-of-the-3rd century Westerosi Lord, he'd have gone all Elliot Rodger rather than challenging Brandon Stark.

^^ As much as I hate to give that piece of shit any name recognition, I agree. There was nothing healthy or well-adjusted with Littlefinger, just as there's nothing healthy or well-adjusted with him now.

[BearQueen87]

In a word: no. He loved what Cat could give him: power, lands, money, titles. And now he's putting it all on Sansa and hoping she'll be more receptive.

I agree with the above: Littlefinger loves Littlefinger.

[willofDorne]

In a word: no. He loved what Cat could give him: power, lands, money, titles. And now he's putting it all on Sansa and hoping she'll be more receptive.

I agree with the above: Littlefinger loves Littlefinger.

This is total BS because he chose to die rather then give her up. He wouldn't concede he had lost, even though he lost way before the duel started. By rights he should have died that day... and in a way he did. He never recovered from that blow, and it shaped him into a person totally unique and unlike any other person. People are denied love, and even denied true love these days, but it is never quite so brutal as what happened to LF. That's what makes him an awesome character. Seriously, if you fell in love and then were beaten to an inch of your life and then told you can never be with that person who you just gave up everything for, would you be in a rush to fall in love again? Or ever?

And don't even blame Ned's death on LF, that was entirely Joffrey's doing. He acted on his own.

[Tellus Explorer]

I don't think he loved her, I think her loved what life would be like with her..... I think he created his own little world of what it would be like to love a Cat, and almost like a .......... Schizophrenic, he build a foundation on that, a grandiose delusion :dunno:

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

He loved Catelyn, whether for who she was, or what she represented, or both. As a young boy, that is. At some point, that love turned into obsession and lust. Gone was loving her character. And now Sansa, a Catelyn 2.0 in looks and position of possible power, fullfills LFs obsession even better than the agot Cat could. Sansa looks like the Catelyn LF loved and lost.. Catelyn from the current story had aged, and wasn't the girl LF had loved once anymore.

[BearQueen87]

This is total BS because he chose to die rather then give her up. He wouldn't concede he had lost, even though he lost way before the duel started. By rights he should have died that day... and in a way he did. He never recovered from that blow, and it shaped him into a person totally unique and unlike any other person. People are denied love, and even denied true love these days, but it is never quite so brutal as what happened to LF. That's what makes him an awesome character. Seriously, if you fell in love and then were beaten to an inch of your life and then told you can never be with that person who you just gave up everything for, would you be in a rush to fall in love again? Or ever?

And don't even blame Ned's death on LF, that was entirely Joffrey's doing. He acted on his own.

Well, he didn't choose to die because he's still alive. He also probably believed that he could win, thus asking for Cat's favor in order to secure his victory. We have no idea what they were like as children, only biased accounts. But Cat maintains that she never loved him as anything more than a brother. If LF decided, foolhardily, to peruse her then that's his fault. And I think he recovered just fine seeing as he's now trying to seduce Sansa who just happens to look like a Young Cat and who is perhaps more pliable. Also unattached and in his debt. Cat represented everything LF wanted: money, glory, power, and yes to some extent love/lust.

And wow. Way to try and put words in my mouth about Ned. I didn't even bring up Ned at all.

[Dornish Vinegar]

This is total BS because he chose to die rather then give her up. He wouldn't concede he had lost, even though he lost way before the duel started. By rights he should have died that day... and in a way he did. He never recovered from that blow, and it shaped him into a person totally unique and unlike any other person. People are denied love, and even denied true love these days, but it is never quite so brutal as what happened to LF. That's what makes him an awesome character. Seriously, if you fell in love and then were beaten to an inch of your life and then told you can never be with that person who you just gave up everything for, would you be in a rush to fall in love again? Or ever?

And don't even blame Ned's death on LF, that was entirely Joffrey's doing. He acted on his own.

He wasn't denied love, he was denied an idea of love that was unreciprocated and had no basis in reality. As BearQueen87 says, Cat only ever loved him as a brother. People are rejected all the time--you move on. You don't dedicate your life to upending the system that gave you a reality check because you were too deluded to be there in the first place.

[BastardlyRock]

It may not be "love" but it's certainly more than a crush... I mean, that'd be a lifelong crush... if it's a crush that's a pretty epic crush.

I do think he may have built the idea up in his head a bit, as some have pointed out. I know the argument has been used for Robert in regards to Lyanna...

[Tagganaro]

If you love someone you don't plot the death of their entire family. Even if your love for the person doesn't automatically extend to their family, you recognize that killing bunches of people they love will make them profoundly, desperately unhappy. If you actually love them, you don't want them to be profoundly, desperately unhappy. This should be obvious.

This. And not only that, but beginning a war between Cat's family and Tywin freaking Lannister puts her directly in harm's way.

I feel like one of these threads always pops up, but the answer is a resounding no. LF is an insane sociopathic creeper not capable of love, who only cares about "proving himself". Hence why he has now transferred his "love" to Sansa in order to make up for Cat rejecting him.

[Pecan]

If you believe that Littlefinger is a sociopath, then no he couldn't have loved Cat. He may have wanted her, lusted after her, and in his own mind he may have thought those things were love, but that's as far as it goes.

[averde]

He only loves himself, he's a classic narcissist. Everyone he claims to love is someone he wants to possess, like a kid who wants a toy.

[BastardlyRock]

Well, he didn't choose to die because he's still alive. He also probably believed that he could win, thus asking for Cat's favor in order to secure his victory.

I'm not sure Littlefinger thought he could win at all, but more likely imagined he would lose and win her favor for his bravery against insurmountable odds... assuming Brandon didn't just kill him, which I'm not sure LF didn't think was a good possibility as well.

I don't think LF is necessarily a "good guy" but I do think he gets marginalized a bit much. I recall him offering advice to Ned as to how to proceed, which had Ned taken very well may have saved his life. Is it LF's fault Ned was too honorable to take his advice?

edit: Sorry I didn't clarify earlier, but I know BearQueen wasn't talking about Ned, I just brought that up in response to others who feel he was behind Ned's death all along.

[Hodor the Articulate]

It's unfortunate that we've been subjected to so many stories about underdogs getting the "perfect" girl, that there are people who question whether LF loved Cat. He didn't even grieve after her death.

[Loic]

It's unfortunate that we've been subjected to so many stories about underdogs getting the "perfect" girl, that there are people who question whether LF loved Cat. He didn't even grieve after her death.

About that, we cannot know: not only Littlefinger isn't a POV, we see also him back in action only after time has passed since the Red Wedding.

We are sure that Tywin grieved Joanna's death because other sources tell us so (Genna, for example), but I don't recall him ever speaking fond of his wife, or with regret.

Littlefinger is the same, but we have no close friends or relatives of him to give us some light.

Only Cat.

A confession of love or an act of spite towards Lysa? Up to the reader, I guess.

[Julian Rayne]

He was in lust with her and probably in love with what he could gain from her. Possibly in his mind that was love.

[Cas Stark]

I'm not sure Littlefinger thought he could win at all, but more likely imagined he would lose and win her favor for his bravery against insurmountable odds... assuming Brandon didn't just kill him, which I'm not sure LF didn't think was a good possibility as well.

I don't think LF is necessarily a "good guy" but I do think he gets marginalized a bit much. I recall him offering advice to Ned as to how to proceed, which had Ned taken very well may have saved his life. Is it LF's fault Ned was too honorable to take his advice?

edit: Sorry I didn't clarify earlier, but I know BearQueen wasn't talking about Ned, I just brought that up in response to others who feel he was behind Ned's death all along.

I'm glad you don't think LF is necessarily a "good guy" since he engineered the murder of Jon Arryn and Ned Stark, two men who did him no wrong, then murdered Lysa Arryn, who herself went crazy over her obsession with him, who could have saved Sansa and sent her back to Cat, but didn't, and who now hopes to mold Sansa into Cat 2.0. and along the way helped start the war of five kings.