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Ashara Dayne


lyannaisalive

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Im not here to present a theory, it's more curiosity than anything but something caught my eye. I was reading a thread about Aegon being the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar and I saw this post



"Maybe Rhaegar is the father of Ashara's baby" (apologies, I don't remember the poster)



At first I laughed at it but then I really got curious. Is there any evidence or theory out their to support this idea.


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We have more textual evidence in favor of the father of her child being a Stark. I´d guess Brandon, Ned´s older brother, based on Barristans thoughts at the end of ADWD. (Why not Ned? Well, Barry being in love with Ashara still thinks fondly of Ned, and Ned is young, shy, honorable whereas we have it from sources like lady Dustin that Brandon was anything but shy...).

Also, although Rhaegar admittedly does steal off with Lyanna, Ned thinks to himself in AGOT that Rhaegar wouldn´t be the type to go to a brothel. So apparently not that notorious womanizer, instead motivated by prophecy.

But if there is something pointing towards Rhaegar then I´ll change my mind. For now my guess is Brandon.

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Well if you believe Ashara Dayne killed herself because she had a stillborn child then Brandon can't be the father he died 1 year before Ashara Dayne's suicid.

Do we know she killed herself straight after the baby was born?

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Do we know she killed herself straight after the baby was born?

After the events of the Tower of Joy, Ned Stark went to Starfall to inform House Dayne of Ser Arthur's death and return to them his greatsword, Dawn. Ashara jumped from the top of one of the towers of Starfall, called the Palestone Sword, on the cliff atop the sea. Her body was never recovered. After these events, Ned Stark returned to Winterfell with the infant Jon Snow, whom he claimed as his bastard son, refusing to name the child's mother. This sparked rumors that Ashara had been the mother of Stark's bastard, and that grief at learning that her lover had been responsible for her brother's death was the cause of her suicide.

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lyannaisalive, on 16 Jul 2014 - 6:56 PM, said:

"Maybe Rhaegar is the father of Ashara's baby" (apologies, I don't remember the poster)

At first I laughed at it but then I really got curious. Is there any evidence or theory out their to support this idea.

No evidence. Doesn't stop theorizing in some parts, but there is no active supporting evidence for this theory.

Do we know she killed herself straight after the baby was born?

No.

Barristan, thinking nearly 20 years later, about events he was never witness to and has only second or third hand data about, thinks it was "soon after". Mind you, he's only making guesses about the state of mind of someone he'd probably not seen for the best part of two years.

The Korean War was "soon after" WWII on a similar timescale....

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In an Arya chapter in A Feast For Crows there might be something to suggest that Prince Rhaegar and Ashara had a thing.



"He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. and the singer should be on the Wall".


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In an Arya chapter in A Feast For Crows there might be something to suggest that Prince Rhaegar and Ashara had a thing.

"He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. and the singer should be on the Wall".

Lewyn Martell is also a Prince, and he fought during the Battle of the Trident. And was a White Sword.

Someone else caught that, Can't remember the name.

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Lewyn Martell is also a Prince, and he fought during the Battle of the Trident. And was a White Sword.

Someone else caught that, Can't remember the name.

Or the singers just made the story more romantic. Perhaps they thought that killing yourself over your brother isn't romantic enough, and thus they gave her a prince to mourn instead.

Ashara's lover wasn't well known info. Catelyn doesn't seem to know it, so why would the singers? So they wouldn't know if her lover had really been a prince, or a lord, or a lords son (Brandon). They would only know he official story.

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Or the singers just made the story more romantic. Perhaps they thought that killing yourself over your brother isn't romantic enough, and thus they gave her a prince to mourn instead.

Ashara's lover wasn't well known info. Catelyn doesn't seem to know it, so why would the singers? So they wouldn't know if her lover had really been a prince, or a lord, or a lords son (Brandon). They would only know he official story.

Or maybe is a parallel, that it was a Prince she killed herself for.

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Or the singers just made the story more romantic. Perhaps they thought that killing yourself over your brother isn't romantic enough, and thus they gave her a prince to mourn instead.

Ashara's lover wasn't well known info. Catelyn doesn't seem to know it, so why would the singers? So they wouldn't know if her lover had really been a prince, or a lord, or a lords son (Brandon). They would only know he official story.

Catelyn suspected that Ashara's lover was Ned from the Winterfell gossip. Cersei also believed this. It is odd that the singers would assume Rhaegar since everyone knew he was banging Lyanna in his tower.

The song is a weird mash up of what we've heard before with Ashara jumping from a tower rather than a cliff and her being with Rhaegar.

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Catelyn suspected that Ashara's lover was Ned from the Winterfell gossip. Cersei also believed this. It is odd that the singers would assume Rhaegar since everyone knew he was banging Lyanna in his tower.

The song is a weird mash up of what we've heard before with Ashara jumping from a tower rather than a cliff and her being with Rhaegar.

I never meant that she had an affair with Rhaegar. I meant that he singers took the official story all of Westeros had heard, and changed some details to make the story more sad, and better fitted for a romantic song. So instead of mourning a brother (real life), the singers made her mourn a prince (in song only, made up by the singers).

Artistic freedom, or something like that.

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I never meant that she had an affair with Rhaegar. I meant that he singers took the official story all of Westeros had heard, and changed some details to make the story more sad, and better fitted for a romantic song. So instead of mourning a brother (real life), the singers made her mourn a prince (in song only, made up by the singers).

Artistic freedom, or something like that.

Perhaps, but isn't a cliff more romantic than a tower? That's my opinion. :)

The song seems to be another weird moment where the story of Ashara is mysteriously bound to Lyanna, Rhaegar, Ned and Howland.

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Lewyn Martell is also a Prince, and he fought during the Battle of the Trident. And was a White Sword.

Someone else caught that, Can't remember the name.

It was J. Stargaryen: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79826-prince-lewyns-paramour/page-6#entry6020478

It's pretty compelling. He convinced me of it.

As for the OP : I don't think Rhaegar and Ashara were involved. If Lewyn was not the father of Ashara's baby and it was a Stark, most likely it was Brandon.

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I read a lot of this ages ago so some is a bit hazy but at the tourney where Rhaegar kidnapped/ran off with Lyanna, weren't the couples Ned/Ashara, Robert/Lyanna, Brandon/Caitlyn and Rhaegar only had eyes/other parts for Lyanna? When Brandon got killed by the mad king, Ned continued Brandons betrothal to ensure the Tullys came to the rebellion. I figure Ashara threw herself off whatever it was cause her love had married someone else, killed her brother and come to take a baby away (if she had Jon and not Lyanna and Rhaegar)


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I read a lot of this ages ago so some is a bit hazy but at the tourney where Rhaegar kidnapped/ran off with Lyanna, weren't the couples Ned/Ashara, Robert/Lyanna, Brandon/Caitlyn and Rhaegar only had eyes/other parts for Lyanna? When Brandon got killed by the mad king, Ned continued Brandons betrothal to ensure the Tullys came to the rebellion. I figure Ashara threw herself off whatever it was cause her love had married someone else, killed her brother and come to take a baby away (if she had Jon and not Lyanna and Rhaegar)

A few things

1) Rhaegar did not take Lyanna from the toureny at Harrenhal. That's where he crowned Lyanna with the blues roses, as the Queen of love and beauty.

2) The couples: Robert and Lyanna were engaged at the time, but Robert and Lyanna, so far as we know, had very little interaction at the tourney. Cat wasn't at the tourney, IIRC. Ned danced with Ashara but Brandon has to ask for him. Brandon was very good with woman, just ask Lady Dustin who gave her virginity to Brandon. Rhaegar was there with his wife, Princess Elia of Dorne. Besides the crowning at the end of the jousting, there is no for sure indication that Rhaegar was paying attention to Lyanna, except if he found out that she was the Mystery Knight (Knight of the Laughing Tree)

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After the events of the Tower of Joy, Ned Stark went to Starfall to inform House Dayne of Ser Arthur's death and return to them his greatsword, Dawn. Ashara jumped from the top of one of the towers of Starfall, called the Palestone Sword, on the cliff atop the sea. Her body was never recovered. After these events, Ned Stark returned to Winterfell with the infant Jon Snow, whom he claimed as his bastard son, refusing to name the child's mother. This sparked rumors that Ashara had been the mother of Stark's bastard, and that grief at learning that her lover had been responsible for her brother's death was the cause of her suicide.

This is why I think fAegon and Jon are fraternal twins. If Eddard had a baby that he had to get North before people thought to ask questions, why did he start out going south? And why did Ashara commit "suicide." These questions caused me to predict a silver haired purple eyed child in the company of Ashara Dayne before ADWD was released. ADWD introduced fAegon and Septa Lemore. Tyrion thought fAeogon was younger than JonCon claims he is. And when Alfie Allen was asked who Jon's parents were he said it was a Star Wars situation.

Jon and fAegon being fraternal twins separated shortly after birth solves four or five mysteries with one event.

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I thought Cersei remembered something about Rhaegar having eyes for Lyanna. She may have called her a wolf-bitch when describing it IIRC.



Where was Caitlin? I thought that was where the engagement to Brandon was announced. Seems weird she wasnt there. Harrenhall's not that far from Riverrun.


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