Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part IV: ADwD

[SeanF]

But it does sum up very well how all the Great Masters feel about what Dany is doing, bottom line: It will cost them money, and they want to keep all their money for themselves. They dont want to pay people to work for them, they want to whip people to work for them. The slaves greatly outnumber the slavers in SB, so for Dany to leave and just let XXD have what he wants means that the ruling class would be happy and that the majority of people living there will go back in to chains. Dany is staying for them, and she is brave to do so.

I don't think it's just about economics. The Great Masters can hire back ex-slaves for a pittance. In fact, for many of them, freeing them and paying them a pittance would probably be cheaper than housing them, feeding them, treating them if they get sick (if they can keep working), raising their children, etc.

What they miss is the absolute power they had over them. The prestige and status of knowing they are free and their slaves aren't. That they can execute them or torture them if they fail to please. And that goes all the way down the social spectrum. Tyrion is told in Volantis that even a beggar will take pride in the fact that he's free, if other people are enslaved. The beggar may be starving, but in law, he's still a citizen, unlike the most pampered slave.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I don't think it's just about economics. The Great Masters can hire back ex-slaves for a pittance. In fact, for many of them, freeing them and paying them a pittance would probably be cheaper than housing them, feeding them, treating them if they get sick (if they can keep working), raising their children, etc.

What they miss is the absolute power they had over them. The prestige and status of knowing they are free and their slaves aren't. That they can execute them or torture them if they fail to please. And that goes all the way down the social spectrum. Tyrion is told in Volantis that even a beggar will take pride in the fact that he's free, if other people are enslaved. The beggar may be starving, but in law, he's still a citizen, unlike the most pampered slave.

Very well said, That is the other part of it for sure. The Great Masters dont feel so 'great' when they cant beat, rape and kill as many of their slaves as they want to anymore. IMO we should not feel sorry for these guys at all, Boohoo for them, but get over it. This is the most ridiculous thing to go to war over. This quote below, perfectly sums up how I feel about it, having been raised in Georgia myself.

“I personally take no pride in the Confederacy. Avoid wars you can’t win, and never raise your flag for an asinine cause like slavery.”

– Francis Underwood, House of Cards

[BearQueen87]

Love the symbolism that Dany metaphorically castrated the Slavers and gave their power over life and death to the literally castrated Unsullied.

(and Frank Underwood FTW!)

[TheMysteriousOne]

Not to beat a dead horse, but there is evidence that Dany has tried to learn about the so-called Usurper, and about RR, but every time she has the opportunity of learning, something always happens. Personally, I think that this is intentional on GRRM's part.

“What of the Usurper? Did he play sad songs as well?”

Arstan chuckled. “Robert? Robert liked songs that made him laugh, the bawdier the better. He only sang when he was drunk, and then it was like to be ‘A Cask of Ale’ or ‘Fifty-Four Tuns’ or ‘The Bear and the Maiden Fair.’ Robert was much -”

As one, her dragons lifted their heads and roared.

“Horses!” Dany leapt to her feet, clutching the lion pelt. Outside, she heard Strong Belwas bellow something, and then other voices, and the sounds of many horses. “Irri, go see who...”

This unambiguously shows that Dany is very capable of learning the truth of what occurred.

[BearQueen87]

Not to beat a dead horse, but there is evidence that Dany has tried to learn about the so-called Usurper, and about RR, but every time she has the opportunity of learning, something always happens. Personally, I think that this is intentional on GRRM's part.

“What of the Usurper? Did he play sad songs as well?”

Arstan chuckled. “Robert? Robert liked songs that made him laugh, the bawdier the better. He only sang when he was drunk, and then it was like to be ‘A Cask of Ale’ or ‘Fifty-Four Tuns’ or ‘The Bear and the Maiden Fair.’ Robert was much -”

As one, her dragons lifted their heads and roared.

“Horses!” Dany leapt to her feet, clutching the lion pelt. Outside, she heard Strong Belwas bellow something, and then other voices, and the sounds of many horses. “Irri, go see who...”

This unambiguously shows that Dany is very capable of learning the truth of what occurred.

good point.

It seems that she is more reticent in regards to learning about the past and the characters of the past, only in more recent times, since she took Slaver's Bay. It might be because she's doubting her own abilities. Prior to deciding to rule in Meereen, she was viewed as the Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains. She was making her own name for herself and it was a good one (to certain factions). Now, she has people fighting against her and turning those names she made for herself against her. When you're already full of self-doubt and worry do you want to hear about Summerhall (a huge Targaryen tragedy?), your mad father, or how some of the "dogs" were more honorable than you were led to believe. If she is shutting out those stories that will help open her eyes, I think it's because of how she views herself at present. All the Targaryen's she associates with herself (Aerys, Rhaegar, and Viserys) all failed in their various endeavors and now she's slowly failing too.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Not to beat a dead horse, but there is evidence that Dany has tried to learn about the so-called Usurper, and about RR, but every time she has the opportunity of learning, something always happens. Personally, I think that this is intentional on GRRM's part.

“What of the Usurper? Did he play sad songs as well?”

Arstan chuckled. “Robert? Robert liked songs that made him laugh, the bawdier the better. He only sang when he was drunk, and then it was like to be ‘A Cask of Ale’ or ‘Fifty-Four Tuns’ or ‘The Bear and the Maiden Fair.’ Robert was much -”

As one, her dragons lifted their heads and roared.

“Horses!” Dany leapt to her feet, clutching the lion pelt. Outside, she heard Strong Belwas bellow something, and then other voices, and the sounds of many horses. “Irri, go see who...”

This unambiguously shows that Dany is very capable of learning the truth of what occurred.

Yes I also think it is intentional on GRRM's part that we have never had a lengthy conversation between Barristan and Dany with him clearly explaining everything that happened in Westeros since Dany was born, or what led up to the sack. I think that she does not want to hear bad things about Aerys or Rhaegar especially. But I also do not think she is in denial about it. in her last DwD chapter she is talking to the grass about Viserys, and she is saying "why did you treat me like that, you were supposed to take care of me?"

She has clearly accepted that Viserys is an idiot, none of his plans would have come to fruition. he treated her terribly, abused her, etc. But he also told her a lot about their family, many of the things he said are simply not true or exaggerated. We saw him tell him a few things that we know are not true once their story picks up in GOT at Illyrio's manse. Plus IMO he heightens details about his family and is lying to himself as much as he is lying to Dany. He is a very bad example of the Targaryens, and I feel like a lot of the hate that is laid on their family is much his fault.

Anyway I think that Dany used to take VIserys' word as law, then by the time we catch up with them in GOT, she is questioning him, soon after she is married to Drogo she outright doubts Viserys. then by Vaes Dothrak she thinks he is a little nuts, knows he would kill her and take her eggs. She knows that even if Drogo had agreed to march West under Viserys' flag, Viserys would still have never been able to take the 7K. So we can see that she can grow and change with regards to her family. Viserys is just the stepping stone for her, next she will have to discover and accept Aerys's entire reign and downfall. I have no idea how she has not heard any of the real stories of her father yet. I would think, living on the run int he free cities she may have at least heard about what a psycho nut her father was, but maybe Viserys shielded her from such talk.

To sum up, I dont think we can discount her ability to change or grow due to her telling Barristan she doesnt want to hear it one time. As TMO pointed out, they have been interrupted several times. Even when Barristan was telling her the R+L story, when they were waiting for news from the battle in Yunkai, that was also interrupted. So yes I completely agree that GRRM has been doing this on purpose for some reason. maybe he plans to spill it all out to Dany at once from some other source like Marwyn or Tyrion, idk. BUt Dany has shown she can grow, has the ability to change her mind about her family and is reasonable.

[HexMachina]

Not to beat a dead horse, but there is evidence that Dany has tried to learn about the so-called Usurper, and about RR, but every time she has the opportunity of learning, something always happens. Personally, I think that this is intentional on GRRM's part.

What of the Usurper? Did he play sad songs as well?

Arstan chuckled. Robert? Robert liked songs that made him laugh, the bawdier the better. He only sang when he was drunk, and then it was like to be A Cask of Ale or Fifty-Four Tuns or The Bear and the Maiden Fair. Robert was much -

As one, her dragons lifted their heads and roared.

Horses! Dany leapt to her feet, clutching the lion pelt. Outside, she heard Strong Belwas bellow something, and then other voices, and the sounds of many horses. Irri, go see who...

This unambiguously shows that Dany is very capable of learning the truth of what occurred.

I always had this impression too. Some of the examples are very clear, like the one you quoted. I wonder how long this will continue (I'm in denial that Barristan will die, if only because I like him :p) Of course, we also have the examples of situations where discussing Aerys is the last thing on Danys mind (Jorahs dismissal)

[BearQueen87]

I always had this impression too. Some of the examples are very clear, like the one you quoted. I wonder how long this will continue (I'm in denial that Barristan will die, if only because I like him :P) Of course, we also have the examples of situations where discussing Aerys is the last thing on Danys mind (Jorahs dismissal)

And of course that's all part of circumstance. Do you really want to talk about your mad father who saw betrayal around every corner right after you've learned closet friend/ally/adviser/bear is apparently one of your three betrayers?

[HexMachina]

And of course that's all part of circumstance. Do you really want to talk about your mad father who saw betrayal around every corner right after you've learned closet friend/ally/adviser/bear is apparently one of your three betrayers?

Yeah, exactly. What I am also curious about, especially since she touches on it only very briefly, is what Viserys told her about Rhaegar and Lyanna. It would be interesting to have the Targaryen viewpoint of that, even if it does come from Viserys. It seems he told her something though, and it seems a more romanticised story. But exactly what...

[MoIaF]

Yeah, exactly. What I am also curious about, especially since she touches on it only very briefly, is what Viserys told her about Rhaegar and Lyanna. It would be interesting to have the Targaryen viewpoint of that, even if it does come from Viserys. It seems he told her something though, and it seems a more romanticised story. But exactly what...

Dany also saw Rheagar's death in the HOTU in which Rhegar calls Lyanna's name as she dies. As per their how Dany views their relationshipI believe she has the impression that they were in love.

[BearQueen87]

Dany also saw Rheagar's death in the HOTU in which Rhegar calls Lyanna's name as she dies. As per their how Dany views their relationshipI believe she has the impression that they were in love.

In Dany's mind Rhaegar is the quintessential knight. He died for the woman he loves, he was brave and strong (especially when she compares him to her other older brother who is a piece of work). She takes great pride in Jorah comparing her to Rhaegar when Dany wants to defend the weak and helpless (something every knight swears to do); and she is very disappointed when Barristan tells her that while Rhaegar was good at the tourneys, it wasn't his passion or even something for which he was unmatched. Rhaegar sang sad songs and spent a lot of time in the ruins of an old hold fast being melancholy and had a sense of doom about him. These are not things that knights in Dany's stories do. Again, Dany's imagined reality vs what is actually happening

[HexMachina]

Dany also saw Rheagar's death in the HOTU in which Rhegar calls Lyanna's name as she dies. As per their how Dany views their relationshipI believe she has the impression that they were in love.

I got that impression too. But I wonder, what was his equivilent of Lyanna's "kidnapping"? Obviously it wasnt the sole cause of the war, but it did prompt the actions of Brandon and in a roundabout sort of way lead Rickard to.his Trial. Viserys surely said something about that.

I also want to add that this would probably make Dany more open to the idea of R+L=J, if she thinks Rhaegar and Lyanna loved each other. That she never shows any particular disdain/hate for Lyanna also suggests to me that she would be completely fine with Eddards' children, and probably even Tyrion (though less so with Tyrion, since he is a character to invites less trust). She may be into collective guilt, but she seems to end the blame at the "Dogs" (Tywin, Robert, Jon Arryn, Ned, Hoster) who fought in the Rebellion, rather than their whole families.

[TheMysteriousOne]

In addition, although Dany idealizes Rhaegar, she has also, reasonably, questioned his motives and actions. She certainly views him as a hero, but she also certainly knows that he is not perfect.

“But that was the tourney when he crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?”

"It is not for such as me to say what might have been in your brother's heart, Your Grace. The Princess Elia was a good and gracious lady, though her health was ever delicate."

Dany pulled the lion pelt tighter about her shoulders. "Viserys said once that it was my fault, for being born too late." She had denied it hotly, she remembered, going so far as to tell Viserys that it was his fault for not being born a girl. He beat her cruelly for that insolence. "If I had been born more timely, he said, Rhaegar would have married me instead of Elia, and it would all have come out different. If Rhaegar had been happy in his wife, he would not have needed the Stark girl."

"Perhaps so, Your Grace." Whitebeard paused a moment. "But I am not certain it was in Rhaegar to be happy."

I find this quote really interesting because on one hand we know that Dany feels that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, but on the other hand she kind of recognizes the sketchiness of his story with Lyanna.

[BearQueen87]

In addition, although Dany idealizes Rhaegar, she has also, reasonably, questioned his motives and actions. She certainly views him as a hero, but she also certainly knows that he is not perfect.

“But that was the tourney when he crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?”

"It is not for such as me to say what might have been in your brother's heart, Your Grace. The Princess Elia was a good and gracious lady, though her health was ever delicate."

Dany pulled the lion pelt tighter about her shoulders. "Viserys said once that it was my fault, for being born too late." She had denied it hotly, she remembered, going so far as to tell Viserys that it was his fault for not being born a girl. He beat her cruelly for that insolence. "If I had been born more timely, he said, Rhaegar would have married me instead of Elia, and it would all have come out different. If Rhaegar had been happy in his wife, he would not have needed the Stark girl."

"Perhaps so, Your Grace." Whitebeard paused a moment. "But I am not certain it was in Rhaegar to be happy."

Yes but look at the next part of that bolded quote: "did the Dornish woman (Elia) treat him so ill?" She's thinking the blame must be with Elia of Dorne, not Rhaegar. The only reason why Rhaegar could possibly "take" Lyanna is because the wife must have been unsatisfactory.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Yes but look at the next part of that bolded quote: "did the Dornish woman (Elia) treat him so ill?" She's thinking the blame must be with Elia of Dorne, not Rhaegar. The only reason why Rhaegar could possibly "take" Lyanna is because the wife must have been unsatisfactory.

I think I may have phrased the post wrongly. I agree that she feels that the blame may lie with Elia, but the reason I bolded "How could he do that" is because it kind of implies a feeling of betrayal because she sees him as a man who would never leave his wife like that and I think she asks if Elia was a bad wife to absolve Rhaegar, but then Barristan shatters that by saying she was a good woman. To Dany, Rhaegar doing such a thing is almost a betrayal in the way that it would inevitably complicate her views about him. The rest of the passage that I did not quote gives the impression that Barristan's conversation with her questions Dany's idealized image of him.

So I think that she still idealizes him, but she does not idealize him to the point where she will bend over backwards to justify all of his actions without questioning.

[Parwan]

Cade, in #397 of the previous thread, said:

btw, it's become virtual gospel in this fandom that slaves Dany freed were so miserable they were lining up to sell themselves back into slavery, but the books only said "Meereenese" and a former merchant wanted to sell themselves, and, as noted here by others, the Qartheen shipmaster said they were "gently born" and "have lost all." They were probably all Meereen citizens, and thus not former slaves. I'm still waiting for Martin to give us a single example of a non-slaver citizen of Slaver's Bay.

That's a good point. There has been a lot of debate about the status of slavery in and around Meereen. Some readers have gone so far as to say that slaves are as bad off, or even worse off, than before Dany freed them. These people claim that slaves are selling themselves back into slavery. I see no textual support for these assertions. As far as I can tell, there is not one confirmed example of a former slave willingly selling himself or herself back into slavery. On the other hand, Dany retains the passionate support of her freedmen. (More about the scene on the riverside below.)

Overall, the essence of the matter appears to be this: Many posters think that Dany's antislavery efforts have accomplished little or nothing. A sizable number of said posters maintain that it is hypocrisy on her part anyway. She only works against slavery when such work benefits her. However, no former slaves hold these opinions. They think Dany is a great person who has done great work.

...

Xharo is a gifted liar, whose defence of slavery should be viewed in that light. Perhaps his "friend" who he saw working in the fields is a fiction...

That is definitely a possibility. It relates to the status of slavery in and around Meereen, the business about unreliable narration, and some other important issues. I have pointed to the solid reasons for doubting Xaro's story in a few threads. It's clear that the Qartheen knows the general situation in Dany's city. He has undoubtedly seen formerly well-to-do men doing hard physical work. It's likely enough that he recognized one or two of them. But consider the story that Xaro presents:

A merchant laboring in the fields sees a man with whom he once worked in Qarth. He cries out to him, "Oh, my old friend, please enslave me and take me back to your house!"

If it happened at all, I don't think it happened that way. Let's say that the first part is true. A more likely development would have been for the former spice merchant to plead for help from Xaro. Then Xaro would have told him what sort of "help" he'd be willing to provide. I'd say that a similar series of events may have taken place on the riverside. We don't have actual testimony from anyone "begging leave to be allowed to sell themselves..." More on this matter in later posts.

...

There are also extreme dangers to Dany staying, but Barristan seems oblivious to the extent of them even though they were predictable after Dany attacked the slave trade. She became the threat of a good example, a symbol to the millions enslaved and therefore an existential threat to the slaver alliance that encircled her for thousands of miles. Short of fleeing or renouncing her opposition to slavery, I think war was inevitable, a war Dany was doomed to lose sans outside intervention or taming a dragon.

The bolded part is very important. Neither Dany nor any of her advisers realizes this. Some of the more sophisticated slavers realize it all too well. Exactly what will happen now is not certain. It is close to certain that things will not go back to exactly the way they were, even if Dany departs for Westeros soon. A later departure could be much "worse." The more success she has, the more trouble the slavers are likely to have, and not just from her. Some people may believe that a successful free Meereen with a strong army of freedmen can coexist with the slave cities in and near SB. Politically sophisticated individuals, especially those who know about events in Volantis, are unlikely to agree.

I dont know, Xaro may not be a mustache twirler, but he's still a big selfish baby...

1. NOW Dany has stopped the slave trade. which means that beautiful perfect Qarth is suffering and will now declare war on her unless she leaves. And what will happen if she leaves?

2. All of SB and the surrounding cities will go right back to their old ways. Astapor will start making Unsulied again and the slave trade will resume. It will be as if Dany was never there and everything she has been working towards for the last book or so will be completely superfluous. This would make no sense...

”Ask yourself, if all men must grub in the dirt for food, how shall any man lift his eyes to contemplate the stars? If each of us must break his back to build a hovel, who shall raise the temples to glorify the gods? For some men to be great, others must be enslaved.”

3. ^^THis is a great quote. It really does sum up how ridiculous SB is and the slave trade in general, and it is simply not true. All they have to do is exchange the word 'enslaved' for 'working class'. What is so wrong with paying these men who 'grub in the dirt'? Why does it have to be slaves or nothing? ...

4. The slaves greatly outnumber the slavers in SB, so for Dany to leave and just let XXD have what he wants means that the ruling class would be happy and that the majority of people living there will go back in to chains. Dany is staying for them, and she is brave to do so.

I agree with much of what you say. I have some areas of disagreement, and a thing or two to add:

1. Dany hasn't stopped the slave trade. There will be talk about how she smashed it, or took it upon herself to smash it, or some such thing. These claims are exaggerated.

2. If, at this point, Dany leaves very quickly, Meereen will almost certainly not remain free. However, the slavers, or at least the more intelligent ones, don't want her to stick around even for a couple of years. A single free city, even a temporarily free city, would probably be unacceptable to them.

Furthermore, I don't think a quick departure would allow all the surrounding cities to go back to their old ways. There are some strong winds blowing and some straws in these winds. For one thing, it seems quite likely that when Dany departs, she will leave with the last of the Unsullied. The people who had the skill and the knowledge to produce these specialized slave soldiers are all dead. This is significant for many reasons. I'm sure the Dothraki will take note of it. It will improve their prospects considerably.

3. True, there is no reason that it has to be one way or the other. Another thing to consider: Proving that there has to be slavery does not prove who should be a slave. Here is one more place where Dany could use a good adviser. A clever guy like Tyrion might have seen this aspect of things. It would be interesting to hear Xaro's response to the following:

"I'm glad you're such an advocate of civilization. Yes, building great temples and contemplating the stars are fine things. So, here's an idea, friend. How about if I enslave you? Then I can be great."

I have put forth this idea a time or two in other threads. Maybe I'll have more to say about it here. In my opinion, different sorts of slavers would have different responses to the question.

4. Again, a quick departure by Dany would likely result in the return of slavery to Meereen. Other results would occur elsewhere. We'll explore these issues more fully after some more POVs.

I want to return to an issue I raised earlier. Daenerys Targaryen and her friends face a host of difficulties. It certainly would have been nice if someone had informed them that the Golden Company was on their side and was in Volantis (or heading for Volantis--depends on when the info got to Dany). That information would have been very useful.

[SeanF]

Parwan,

There do seem to be some Slavers (like the Yellow Whale) who believe that peaceful co-existence with Meereen is possible, so long as freedom is strictly confined to that city. Hizdahr at least, seems to think that he can grab economic opportunities out of emancipation. Perhaps, they're just politically naive. Dany hates the peace deal she makes, and would surely find it sickening to return runaway slaves to neighbouring cities, and to see the Great Masters resume slave trading, through agents in those cities.

The rulers of Volantis and New Ghis, OTOH, seem to be completely ideologically committed to slavery, and determined to stamp out any hint of freedom. they may also (tying in with your point about the Unsullied) see an opportunity to colonise Slavers Bay.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I agree with much of what you say. I have some areas of disagreement, and a thing or two to add:

1. Dany hasn't stopped the slave trade. There will be talk about how she smashed it, or took it upon herself to smash it, or some such thing. These claims are exaggerated.

2. If, at this point, Dany leaves very quickly, Meereen will almost certainly not remain free. However, the slavers, or at least the more intelligent ones, don't want her to stick around even for a couple of years. A single free city, even a temporarily free city, would probably be unacceptable to them.

Furthermore, I don't think a quick departure would allow all the surrounding cities to go back to their old ways. There are some strong winds blowing and some straws in these winds. For one thing, it seems quite likely that when Dany departs, she will leave with the last of the Unsullied. The people who had the skill and the knowledge to produce these specialized slave soldiers are all dead. This is significant for many reasons. I'm sure the Dothraki will take note of it. It will improve their prospects considerably.

3. True, there is no reason that it has to be one way or the other. Another thing to consider: Proving that there has to be slavery does not prove who should be a slave. Here is one more place where Dany could use a good adviser. A clever guy like Tyrion might have seen this aspect of things. It would be interesting to hear Xaro's response to the following:

"I'm glad you're such an advocate of civilization. Yes, building great temples and contemplating the stars are fine things. So, here's an idea, friend. How about if I enslave you? Then I can be great."

I have put forth this idea a time or two in other threads. Maybe I'll have more to say about it here. In my opinion, different sorts of slavers would have different responses to the question.

4. Again, a quick departure by Dany would likely result in the return of slavery to Meereen. Other results would occur elsewhere. We'll explore these issues more fully after some more POVs.

I want to return to an issue I raised earlier. Daenerys Targaryen and her friends face a host of difficulties. It certainly would have been nice if someone had informed them that the Golden Company was on their side and was in Volantis (or heading for Volantis--depends on when the info got to Dany). That information would have been very useful.

1. Maybe she hasn't stopped it completely, but it is damaged enough that Qarth is sending an envoy and complaining. Plus we have Tyrion and Quentyn's chapters from Volantis.

Quentyn 1

'That gave the Captain pause. "I am no stranger to Meereen. I could find the city again, aye.....but why? There are no slaves to be had in Meereen, no profit to be found there. The Silver Queen has put an end to that.'

So I mean, she has stopped the slave trade enough that it affects every port city in Essos practically. And that is an incredible feat, to affect the whole world, even for a short period of time.

2. I really couldnt say what will happen to SB if Dany and her forces leave all of a sudden. I do not think it will bode well for the freedmen and former slaves.

3. I think that is an excellent point you bring up. What if the laws turned around and the Master's became slaves. Brad Pitt sums it up very well in his scene in 12 Years a Slave (Bass = Brad Pitt..... Edwin Epps = Michael Fassbender, Slave Owner);

Edwin has just beat one of his slaves within an inch of her life.

Edwin Epps: No sin! There is no sin! A man does how he pleases with his property. At the moment, Platt, I am of great pleasure. You be goddamn careful I don't come to wantin' to lightenin' my mood no further.

Bass: The law says you have the right to hold a n$%##@, but begging the law's pardon... it lies. Is everything right because the law allows it? Suppose they'd pass a law taking away your liberty and making you a slave?

Edwin Epps: Ha!

Bass: Suppose!

Edwin Epps: That ain't a supposable case.

Bass: Because the law states that your liberties are undeniable? Because society deems it so? Laws change. Social systems crumble. Universal truths are constant. It is a fact, it is a plain fact that what is true and right is true and right for all. White and black alike.

You are saying essentially the same thing. As unfathomable as it is, what if the laws were turned around and the masters became slaves? Would the Great Masters then have the same opinions about what they can do with their property? I doubt it.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Parwan,

There do seem to be some Slavers (like the Yellow Whale) who believe that peaceful co-existence with Meereen is possible, so long as freedom is strictly confined to that city. Hizdahr at least, seems to think that he can grab economic opportunities out of emancipation. Perhaps, they're just politically naive. Dany hates the peace deal she makes, and would surely find it sickening to return runaway slaves to neighbouring cities, and to see the Great Masters resume slave trading, through agents in those cities.

The rulers of Volantis and New Ghis, OTOH, seem to be completely ideologically committed to slavery, and determined to stamp out any hint of freedom. they may also (tying in with your point about the Unsullied) see an opportunity to colonise Slavers Bay.

I agree that there are circumstances where the masters treat their house slaves half-way decent. But those cases seem to be in the minority in SB. Sure one in every hundred slaves might get sold to a nice existence like in Yezzan's house, but they still wear collars and are not free. Tyrion doesnt like it very much, nor would I. IMO this is shown so the reader can see the best possible situation for a slave, and from where I am sitting it still looks pretty fucking terrible.

[HexMachina]

I don't think Yezzan's slaves really live good lives. Jorah is also Yezzan's slave, and look how he is treated. The "grotesquerie" do receive special treatment, but even they live in constant fear of displeasing Nurse. Also, sending your "special slaves" to be eaten by lions doesnt strike me .as "nice"