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NBA Offseason: What's Love Got To Do With It


Rhom

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Yeah, it's hard to know what to make of that list. Three of those guys were rookie phenoms (Wall, Griffin, Lillard), so it isn't surprising that they would dominate summer league too. The fact that Rice and Porter could outplay Parker and Wiggins seems like a good thing I guess?


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The Cavs are so inept that they're offering Wiggins in a deal they absolutely don't need to make, and the Wolves are so inept that they haven't taken the deal yet. I really don't know what'll happen next.


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The Cavs are so inept that they're offering Wiggins in a deal they absolutely don't need to make, and the Wolves are so inept that they haven't taken the deal yet. I really don't know what'll happen next.

I keep hoping that the Cavs will come to their senses. But I don't think they will.

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Yeah, it's hard to know what to make of that list. Three of those guys were rookie phenoms (Wall, Griffin, Lillard), so it isn't surprising that they would dominate summer league too. The fact that Rice and Porter could outplay Parker and Wiggins seems like a good thing I guess?

Yeah exactly. Dominating Summer League doesn't mean you'll turn into the NBA's next big thing but it is positively correlated with having success in the league.

I think also based off of Anthony Bennett and Otto Porter's summer league last year, seems like a big red flag for high draft picks who struggle at summer league. Bears watching how Jabari Parker's rookie season goes especially.

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Read elsewhere that the Bulls are now offering Gibson, Mirotic, and McDermott for Love.

I still think that isn't even close to Wiggins and Bennett, but meh.

Hmmmm, yeah that's what Chris Sheridan is reporting.http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/23/exclusive-bulls-have-offered-gibson-mcdermott-and-mirotic-for-love/

The package is extremely intriguing to the Timberwolves, but there is a catch; it cannot be completed for another 29 days because McDermott and Mirotic signed their rookie contracts Tuesday. NBA rules prohibit rookies from being traded within the first 30 days of inking their rookie deals.

That could be good news for the Cleveland Cavaliers, who still have not signed Andrew Wiggins and may not do so until the end of this week. That will give them time to present Minnesota with an offer that can be acted upon immediately, bringing the Love trade talks to a quicker conclusion and giving the Cavs a superstar trio of LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and Love.

The source who spoke to SheridanHoops said he believed the Bulls’ offer was better in the minds of the Wolves than the Cavs’ current offer of Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and a first-round pick.

But if Cleveland is willing to include a second future first-round pick – it owns the rights to Miami’s first-rounder as well as Memphis’ in 2015) – that might be enough to trump Chicago’s offer

This would be by far the biggest move VP John Paxson has ever made. He's been criticized for being too conservative in the past. To bring over Mirotic and then immediately trade him would seem way out of character for Pax but perhaps they see their window as now.

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Hmmmm, yeah that's what Chris Sheridan is reporting.http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/23/exclusive-bulls-have-offered-gibson-mcdermott-and-mirotic-for-love/

This would be by far the biggest move VP John Paxson has ever made. He's been criticized for being too conservative in the past. To bring over Mirotic and then immediately trade him would seem way out of character for Pax but perhaps they see their window as now.

I don't get it. I mean Love fits with their roster nicely (and his shooting ability is a godsend for their offense) but it completely strips Pau Gasol of all value. Both basically need to play the 4 on the Bulls (neither can play the 3 and you want Noah playing the 5 as much as possible). Makes Pau Gasol at best a 15-20 minute guy for them which isn't the best use of $7m/year. So if you're going to target Love, why not do it at the beginning of the process? What changed?

Seems like a balls to the wall attempt to win the East next year by getting Love and denying Cleveland his services. Still got my doubts they'll be able to get past the West in the finals so they better have the necessary assurances he'll sign there longterm.

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Seems like a balls to the wall attempt to win the East next year by getting Love and denying Cleveland his services. Still got my doubts they'll be able to get past the West in the finals so they better have the necessary assurances he'll sign there longterm.

A Bulls team with Gasol, Love, Noah and a healthy Rose is intriguing, but if any of Love, Noah or Rose get injured I doubt they could even win the East. Their depth would be pretty terrible, and Chicago's bread and butter the past few years (defense) would now be entirely centered around Noah, since the other three are pretty lackluster defenders.

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I don't get it. I mean Love fits with their roster nicely (and his shooting ability is a godsend for their offense) but it completely strips Pau Gasol of all value. Both basically need to play the 4 on the Bulls (neither can play the 3 and you want Noah playing the 5 as much as possible). Makes Pau Gasol at best a 15-20 minute guy for them which isn't the best use of $7m/year. So if you're going to target Love, why not do it at the beginning of the process? What changed?

Seems like a balls to the wall attempt to win the East next year by getting Love and denying Cleveland his services. Still got my doubts they'll be able to get past the West in the finals so they better have the necessary assurances he'll sign there longterm.

Not really. Gasol Isn't going to be a starter even if none of this happens, Gibson is. Gasol is going to back up Gibson and Noah at the 4 and 5 and provide scoring off the bench as the 6man. One thing the Bulls have wanted to do and have done with their signings is to lower the minutes on their players during the regular season. Thibs has killed his guys the past 2 seasons because they've lacked depth and because Thibs coaches balls to the wall 24/7.

Now can he dial it back with a deep bench? Yes because he's done it before. In 2010-11 he had the Bench Mob, a team that went 10 deep and he played those 5 reserves A LOT. In fact, those 5 reserves were statistically the best defensive 5 in the league that year.

So if the Bulls were to get Love, they would still use Gasol as the backup at 4 and 5. In fact, he might have to play MORE minutes because they would be trading two bigs for one.

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Thibs runs players into the ground because of this practices, not actual game time.

I'm a Bulls fan that listens to more Chicago sports radio that I probably should...I have never heard that he grinds his players in practice. It's always been that he plays them too many minutes during the regular season and that they are out of gas by the playoffs.

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Deng played over 39mpg in 2010-11 Trebla. So even if Thibodeau played 10 guys a lot he still failed miserably in dialing back minutes.

Deng has always been the one exception. They never were able to get a true SF backup to please Thibs defensively. Starters that year and minutes were:

PG: Derrick Rose: (37.4)

SG: Keith Bogans (17.8)

SF: Luol Deng (39.1)

PF: Carlos Boozer (31.9)

C: Joakim Noah (32.8)

Comming off the bench:

PG: CJ Watson (13.3)

SG: Kyle Korver (20.1), Ronnie Brewer (22)

PF: Taj Gibson (21.8), Kurt Thomas (22.7)

C: Omer Asik (12.1)

Actually 11 deep, I had forgotten about Thomas.

ETA: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/2011.html

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Love to the Bulls was my favourite move from the get go, but they went for Anthony instead.
Unremarkably for a Bulls off-season, they shot and missed.

But the timing of this seems really weird. They just felt so glad to get McDermott. Then signed Mirotic. Told Gibson that he will be the starting PF next year. And then these guys would get traded for Kevin Love? It seems like too much to give up in a way, but creating a good package while maintaining your core would always be the problem for the Bulls, so I could see why'd they do it. I just think at this point that this is not actually being discussed. I think they're likely to stick with what they have. On the other hand I'd love it if they could get him, somehow.

As for the Summer league, maybe it doesn't mean much, but I just like seeing young guys excel. The fact that the Wizards had two of the best guys in an emerging Otto Porter and Glen Rice Jr can only be seen as a good sign, these should be good rotation pieces for next year. And they play at positions ( SG and SF) where the Wizards can use more good players ( though depth is a bit of a problem at every position, but that applies to nearly all teams). Doug McDermott was apparently sensationally better than his fellow Bulls in all the games he played, with the exception of Snell.

I also liked hearing about the versatility of the Greek Freak, that Wiggins played well and that TJ Warren could be a very important addition to that Suns team.

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How is that relevant to your claim that Thibodeau dialed back the minutes that season?

In general NBA coaches overplay their guys. I´d say any average over 35 is probably too much for regular season. This doesn´t mean there aren´t situations where it is understandable.

And like I said upthread, Luol was the exception because the Bulls did not have another true small forward. But he rotated all his bigs and had 4 of them over 20 minutes a game. I was alittle surprised at Omer's minutes. I thought he played a lot more than that but I think what it was is that he rode the bench early on as he learned the D and his minutes rose as he figured things out. He was playing quite a bit more at the end of the season.

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I don't get it. I mean Love fits with their roster nicely (and his shooting ability is a godsend for their offense) but it completely strips Pau Gasol of all value. Both basically need to play the 4 on the Bulls (neither can play the 3 and you want Noah playing the 5 as much as possible). Makes Pau Gasol at best a 15-20 minute guy for them which isn't the best use of $7m/year. So if you're going to target Love, why not do it at the beginning of the process? What changed?

Seems like a balls to the wall attempt to win the East next year by getting Love and denying Cleveland his services. Still got my doubts they'll be able to get past the West in the finals so they better have the necessary assurances he'll sign there longterm.

I wonder which of the 3 teams now being named as the Love destination actually needs him the most.

Golden state seems to me the team that needs him the least. He'd b a great fit at all 3 teams sure. But offense is where GS is reasonably strong already. Love is a massive upgrade over Lee, but if they give up Thompson they're in trouble. They do need him, to make the next step, but the trade Minnesota wants could set them at about break-even in the end.

Cavaliers need him. Don't have bigs that do much offense. In fact they are very much short on bigs anyway. Only have a part-time center in Varejao. Tristan Thompson might work in a 6th man role. I would trade Wiggins and Bennett, but I'd be worried about my defense. In a way, if they made that trade, they'll still have lucked into it because them getting Wiggins in the draft was huge fortune. I would pull the trigger on that. At worst, Wiggins turns into a star. So what, I have LeBron. And Kevin Love. and Irving. I can live with that, easy.

The Bulls also need offense, badly, but having just signed Gasol and Mirotic, and McDermott, with Dunleavy and Snell as shooters still on your team, you could ride that out as well.

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When there are gems like Deng playing 39:35 in a 30 point win (led by 28 at the half) against Warriors in november it´s clear that Thibodeau didn´t even try.



You don´t need another true small forward, just someone capable of playing there for couple minutes. San Antonio had only 1 last year and he played under 30mpg.




Cal: Golden state was actually better on the defensive end last year.


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I wonder which of the 3 teams now being named as the Love destination actually needs him the most.

Golden state seems to me the team that needs him the least. He'd b a great fit at all 3 teams sure. But offense is where GS is reasonably strong already. Love is a massive upgrade over Lee, but if they give up Thompson they're in trouble. They do need him, to make the next step, but the trade Minnesota wants could set them at about break-even in the end.

Cavaliers need him. Don't have bigs that do much offense. In fact they are very much short on bigs anyway. Only have a part-time center in Varejao. Tristan Thompson might work in a 6th man role. I would trade Wiggins and Bennett, but I'd be worried about my defense. In a way, if they made that trade, they'll still have lucked into it because them getting Wiggins in the draft was huge fortune. I would pull the trigger on that. At worst, Wiggins turns into a star. So what, I have LeBron. And Kevin Love. and Irving. I can live with that, easy.

The Bulls also need offense, badly, but having just signed Gasol and Mirotic, and McDermott, with Dunleavy and Snell as shooters still on your team, you could ride that out as well.

I agree with all of this except for one small caveat. At worst, Wiggins turns into a superstar and Anthony Bennett turns into Zach Randolph and both of those happen by Wiggins 3rd year. And if we really want to delve into at worst scenarios, the Cavs underperform in the playoffs and Love bolts for LA after one season.

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