dornishscorpion Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 As the title says. I often find myself when in heated debates with religious people disorganized in my mental process and either forgetting some arguments or weakly presenting them and hate how sometimes only the usual arguments come up in my mind . Counterarguments are welcomed to disprove weak ones but i hope you guys can present me with some really solid ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wouldn't you rather discuss something more productive like, say, baking cookies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 DS,Proving a negative is usually impossible or impossibly difficult. Most of the time non-theists put the onus on theists (of which I am one) to prove God exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Firstly, define God.Or Do you mean God as defined by Christians? Jews? Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 You can't prove a negative. Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, and all we have is absence of evidence. Most of the time the latter is enough, because we don't believe in anything without any evidence in favor either - unicorns or dragons or fairies for example. But because people are more invested in the idea of god than dragons, you have to argue harder in the first case. That said, a god with certain properties can be shown to be paradox. For example, omnipotence runs into the question if an omnipotent god can create an object he can't change after he created it. However, that one seems largely irrelevant to our life. More to the point, it's hard to square an omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent god with atrocities like the holocaust or tragedies like children dying because of leukemia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishscorpion Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Firstly, define God.Or Do you mean God as defined by Christians? Jews? Muslims?Yeah since most people who believe in such an entity adhere to one of those religions. God as described by monotheistic religions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wouldn't you rather discuss something more productive like, say, cookies? Cookies aren't productive, cookies are a product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 PG,He must have ment baking cookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishscorpion Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 You can't prove a negative. Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, and all we have is absence of evidence. Most of the time the latter is enough, because we don't believe in anything without any evidence in favor either - unicorns or dragons or fairies for example. But because people are more invested in the idea of god than dragons, you have to argue harder in the first case. That said, a god with certain properties can be shown to be paradox. For example, omnipotence runs into the question if an omnipotent god can create an object he can't change after he created it. However, that one seems largely irrelevant to our life. More to the point, it's hard to square an omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent god with atrocities like the holocaust or tragedies like children dying because of leukemia.I'm thinking maybe some arguments that disprove religious books. Paradoxes of Omnipotence and omniscience often seem to have no effect for the reasons you've mentioned above , sometimes it is kind of difficult to convey the message to people . And even I find the rock paradox quite silly for why would a god who controls the full universe be even interested in creating such a rock or why would he be interested in performing silly acts in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 As the title says. I often find myself when in heated debates with religious people disorganized in my mental process and either forgetting some arguments or weakly presenting them and hate how sometimes only the usual arguments come up in my mind . Counterarguments are welcomed to disprove weak ones but i hope you guys can present me with some really solid ones Never argue with an idiot.... observers won't be able to tell the difference You can't win the debate. Neat trick though........ 1. "If I could prove to you that god does not exist, would you believe it.?" 2. If he or she says no.... you win... 3. If he or she says yes,,,ask "what proof do you require?" 4. This inevitably leads to an outlandish or completely impractical request for proof....(for there is none refer to 2) 5. Ask;"what outlandish/impractical proof did you need to believe in god?" 6, If he or she gives a valid response concede,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Well it's undeniable that God of the abrahamic religions exists.Certainly exists as a concept and as a character in literature.Much like how Cap'n Crunch and Count Chocula exist.The religions are extremely vague anyway at defining this God fella. So I guess in what form(s) does it exist is the debate.Like ya know, is it actually a human looking dude? Or just an non physical spirit? Just a source of light or something?Many believers of religion will answer these in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhangel Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I refer you to this. If their beliefs are actively harming someone, speak up. If they just want to believe in a beardy sky fairy, let them, it's none of your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Wouldn't you rather discuss something more productive like, say, baking cookies?If there is an enlightened soul in this thread, LITA, it's you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornishscorpion Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I refer you to this. If their beliefs are actively harming someone, speak up. If they just want to believe in a beardy sky fairy, let them, it's none of your business.Actually these debates start when someone asks me of my beliefs , this is followed by thr heated debate and attempts to convert me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 For me it's the fact that science can explain our existence while religion cannot give me a logical explanation.Also the bible is a bunch of BS. It doesn't teach love and acceptance of all (like so many religious people say) It breeds intolerance most of the time. One argument I can think of that I have brought up while debating this is:What about Dinosaurs? If Adam & Eve were the first, where did the Dinosaurs come from?Oddly enough the response that I get is usually: Dinosaurs are not real....I don't know how to argue with something like that. I don't need a book or a 'god' to tell me what is morally right & wrong. I know what is morally right & wrong. That being said I think the bible was created with good intentions. I think it was meant as a guideline to humanity to kind of keep them in line.For some people the bible & religion are a very good thing. For instance, while my Grandmother was passing her faith in God & the bible helped her pass in peaceand for that I am grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Actually these debates start when someone asks me of my beliefs , this is followed by thr heated debate and attempts to convert me So you're thinking to... convert them back? Look, this is never going to go anywhere. Nobody's ever going to turn someone from an atheist to a theist or vice versa by the process of internet arguments. Or any arguments, really. It's just pointless bickering and showmanship and ego-stroking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 So you're thinking to... convert them back? Look, this is never going to go anywhere. Nobody's ever going to turn someone from an atheist to a theist or vice versa by the process of internet arguments. Or any arguments, really. It's just pointless bickering and showmanship and ego-stroking.Maybe going after the agnostic demographic???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Maybe going after the agnostic demographic???? If you're an agnostic, then your position is that God's existence cannot be known or proved at all, making internet arguments trying to prove or disprove God even more futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm looking for another word besides agnostic then.Undecides maybe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Go to the library and do your own homework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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