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Dany will NOT fight the Others


283 replies to this topic

#1 Mithras Stoneborn

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:52 AM

The next morning she woke stiff and sore and aching, with ants crawling on her arms and legs and face. When she realized what they were, she kicked aside the stalks of dry brown grass that had served as her bed and blanket and struggled to her feet. She had bites all over her, little red bumps, itchy and inflamed. Where did all the ants come from? Dany brushed them from her arms and legs and belly. She ran a hand across her stubbly scalp where her hair had burned away, and felt more ants on her head, and one crawling down the back of her neck. She knocked them off and crushed them under her bare feet. There were so many …

It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he’d built it himself.

 

This passage clearly shows that Dany will turn her back to the Wall and sleep through the night until the Others/wights coming from the other side of the Wall bite her ass.

 

It is not a dream. A real event with a symbolic interpretation. GRRM specifically mentioned the Wall and the anthill on the other side of the Wall where the ants were coming to this side and biting humans. There is no nother explanation.

 

Dany is not AAR. She does not have any investment in the war against the Others. It has been 5 books already and she does not know anything about them. She will be occupied with the Second Dance.

 

In short, it is not happening.

 

Oh, before Dany fans swarm the thread and bring the only thing they can use to “prove” that Dany will fight the Others, let me give that myself.

 

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent.

 

This is the ONLY piece of “evidence” that can be brought up when arguing that Dany will fight the Others. And it is only when you take this dream at face value. Dreams and prophecies are seldom literal and they might have multiple interpretations. Though Dany fans love to take everything at face value because Dany fulfilled everything about the AAR prophecy at face value.

 

The men of the winterlands are made of iron and ice, and even my boldest knights fear to face them.”

 

A very plausible explanation of Dany’s dream is that Usurper’s host armored in ice is Stannis with the Northmen (described metaphorically as made of ice) following him.

 

In addition, “melting away” before the dragons is exactly what the Dornish did to defeat Rhaenys. I really don’t see why this dream represents a victory instead of defeat. In the real setting of the dream, Rhaegar was killed by the Usurper.

 

Another important aspect of this dream is that it is not necessarily a normal prophetic dragon dream. Quaithe is using a glass candle and it is possible to send visions to a person by using glass candles. Dany woke up from this dream in the middle of the night and Quaithe appeared immediately after and told her this:

 

“Remember. To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

 

If anything, that dream should be related to what Quaithe said afterwards. Rhaegar rode North to the Trident to his death. Quaithe started by warning Dany not to do the same.



#2 LordStoneheart

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

I love all your posts because the way you talk it's obvious you've read the last few books. That's really awesome. I'm very jealous.



#3 Mithras Stoneborn

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:58 AM

I love all your posts because the way you talk it's obvious you've read the last few books. That's really awesome. I'm very jealous.

 

There is a quote I gave in the OP from the first book.



#4 Lord Bowie

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:00 AM

I see another interpretation for the ants. For me is more like a wake up call for her to forget about the IT, the game of thrones and the 2nd dance and to focus on the real threat of the realm - the Others. I don't see anything that hints for a defeat OR a victory, but I can see her participation in events to come.



#5 LordStoneheart

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:09 AM

It's not your quotes I have a problem with. It's the way you phrase the premise as if your interpretations and predictions are complete facts. You cannot say for certain it won't happen. You can only speculate and point out that there is little foreshadowing besides her dream and... ants?



#6 Nictarion

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:21 AM

:bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:

 

Not only do we have the dream about fighting an army covered in ice, we have the vision of the blue rose in the wall of ice (i.e.she will go to the Wall and meet Jon) and we have the author saying the major characters will all come to the same place towards the end of the story.

 

Show spoiler

Spoiler



#7 Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:22 AM

The ants catch her by surprise but then she brushes them aside or crushes them. I agree that doesn't sound like much of a fight.

#8 Mladen

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:26 AM

It's not your quotes I have a problem with. It's the way you phrase the premise as if your interpretations and predictions are complete facts. You cannot say for certain it won't happen. You can only speculate and point out that there is little foreshadowing besides her dream and... ants?


Whoah... For a second I thought you consider this as serious piece of foreshadowing...

Once again, the OP may have a good conclusion but for all the bad reasons. Rejecting far more powerful piece of foreshadowing with ANTS? Like, seriously? Well, as I said, the conclusion might be valid, but we should take the narrative into consideration, not solely use dubious and quite frankly meaningless "pieces of foreshadowing" colored with bias opinion.

#9 Nictarion

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:30 AM

Whoah... For a second I thought you consider this as serious piece of foreshadowing...

Once again, the OP may have a good conclusion but for all the bad reasons. Rejecting far more powerful piece of foreshadowing with ANTS? Like, seriously? Well, as I said, the conclusion might be valid, but we should take the narrative into consideration, not solely use dubious and quite frankly meaningless "pieces of foreshadowing" colored with bias opinion.

:rofl:



#10 Cold-King

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:30 AM

Id love to know what your other 4000+ posts are about, the certainty in your statements seems to me quite foolish, Dany will no doubt reach the wall, or atleast join the battle against the others, as to whether she is victorious or not still has to be seen.  



#11 Bog Devil of Greywater

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:30 AM

I think the ants coming over the wall is an interesting point. Not sure I agree with the conclusion, but it is interesting as a potential foreshadowing to how Dany may become aware of the Others.

 

One thing that doesn't follow to me is that by the time Dany could be 'surprised' by the Others coming she will have met both Marwyn and Tyrion, who are both aware of the Others to some extent, Marwyn especially so, since he's just had the full story from Sam Tarly. 

 

It also assumes that no one would have gotten a Raven off at any point between the Wall and the Trident to warn the South about the impending attacks.

 

I just don't know that I believe it's going to be a great secret that a large undead army (presumably wiping out half the kingdom by that point) as far South as the Trident could surprise anyone.



#12 PirateVergo

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:32 AM

 

 

Not only do we have the dream about fighting an army covered in ice, 

In this dream she's Rhaegar not Daenerys and as OP said, the army covered in Ice aren't confirmed to be Others.

Jon's dream where he is killing others with a burning sword is way more credible than this.

 

 

 

, we have the vision of the blue rose in the wall of ice (i.e.she will go to the Wall and meet Jon) 

1. Why would Daenerys go to the wall? All she care about is taking the Iron Throne, and just like any other king she probably won't give a fuck about the wall.

2. How having a vision of the blue rose in the wall of ice is foreshadowing that she's gonna meet him?

 

 

 

and we have the author saying the major characters will all come to the same place towards the end of the story.

You cannot assume things out of nowhere, nothing suggest this place will be the wall.



#13 Mithras Stoneborn

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:34 AM

Just for clarification;

 

I did not say anywhere that Dany will not go to the Wall. She WILL go to the Wall but not to fight the Others.



#14 Mithras Stoneborn

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:37 AM

:bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:

 

Not only do we have the dream about fighting an army covered in ice, we have the vision of the blue rose in the wall of ice (i.e.she will go to the Wall and meet Jon) and we have the author saying the major characters will all come to the same place towards the end of the story.

 

Show spoiler

Spoiler

 

What PirateVergo said, though I must state that Dany will go to the Wall because Jon will challenge/command her.



#15 Mladen

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:39 AM

2. How having a vision of the blue rose in the wall of ice is foreshadowing that she's gonna meet him? 


Tell me, why do you think we have a scene in which Dany sees that blue rose? Just to add, remember that Martin never broke the 4th wall.

#16 Nictarion

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:40 AM

nvm


Edited by Nictarion, 22 July 2014 - 07:43 AM.


#17 Mithras Stoneborn

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:41 AM

The ants catch her by surprise but then she brushes them aside or crushes them. I agree that doesn't sound like much of a fight.

 

Not so easy with real wights.

 

The ants feasted on her flesh all through the night. I don't think that can be called a surprise. 



#18 PirateVergo

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:42 AM

 

Tell me, why do you think we have a scene in which Dany sees that blue rose? Just to add, remember that Martin never broke the 4th wall. 

 

Because Jon is her nephew?



#19 LordStoneheart

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:43 AM

"Just like any other king she won't care about the Wall..."

 

Since when does someone's endgame determine their entire character arc? What was on Arya's mind all throughout Clash and Storm? Head home and then the Wall. Sure, there was some foreshadowing with Jaqen about Braavos, but it was never her intention until circumstances changed her goal. Same with Stannis. Just because Dany's goal is take the seven kingdoms now doesn't mean that it is a 100% guaranteed indisputable fact that she will not care about the Wall in the future. I might point out that Jon also didn't care about fighting the Others when he went directly to the Wall. He cared about rising up and winning glory. He changed. People change. 



#20 Mladen

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:45 AM

Because Jon is her nephew?


That wasn't my question. Explain me the purpose of the scene.