My first re-read

[lom678]

I've skipped A Games of Thrones and went straight to A Clash of Kings.

I was pleasantly surprised that it was the same poison that killed Cressen that killed Joffrey. I still don't understand how Melisandre survived, I'm still guessing it's just magic.

I also finally figured out why Lommy Greenhands is named the way he is and I completely forgot about the scene where Yoren spanks Arya.

And the last chapter I read was Sansa and hearing that one of Slynt's boys failing at the joust made me so happy. Also the foreshadowing of The Red Wedding was awesome.

Sansa says her Father was first because he was a traitor. Would Robb and Mother be next?

This has been an awesome re-read and can't wait to find out new things.

[lom678]

Renly's death was foreshadowed by Varys in the chapter where Tyrion sends Janos Slynt to the wall.

[Annara Snow]

I'm rereading Clash. I never noticed the first time that there are lots of hints in Tyrion's second chapter that Littlefinger knew Joffrey was going to execute Ned and was probably whispering in his ear. But it all goes over Tyrion's head. Another thing I noticed this time in his chapters is that he doesn't treat Shae nearly as well as he thinks - for instance, when she tells him she'd like to help and he says she helps him most between the sheets, which he saw she did not like to hear, or when she makes a joke and he tells her to shut up and kiss him. I can't blame her for seeing him as just a rich john.

Arya's fourth chapter reminded me that Arya was as naive as Sansa, or more at that point, regarding knights - she thinks they protect innocent people, especially women. And then Amory Lorch's men attack and she is soon to be brought to Harrenhal and see how wrong she was.

Great parallelism between the preceding chapter - Jon II - where the NW find only abandoned wildling villagez; people having fled the Others and the weights, and this Arya chapter, where she and the NW recruits find only abandoned villages, people having fled Tywin's minions like Gregor, Lorch or the Bloody Mummers. Some humans are worse than the ice monsters, like the above mentioned or the Boltons.

[e22ddie46]

Also, all of Bran's chapters having the Bastard of Bolton stirrings. And that he seems to be a particularly bad branch even from the Bolton tree; meanwhile you are reading like "kill him! kill him now, its not reek!" And finally, rereading really changed my opinion about Theon. Between knowing what is in store for him and also that, in reality, what he did was probably no worse than what anyone else in his position did in the book series

[lom678]

Theon deserved much better.

[Annara Snow]

I don't hate and despise Theon the way I did when I was first reading the books, and I can now see his crisis of identity and his troubled conscience (when he is having nightmares after having the miller's boys killed), but oh my gods, he was still such a douche. There were even douchey moments I didn't notice or had forgotten about - such as when he's contemplating how great it would be if Sansa was there so he could marry her to secure his hold on Winterfell ("a pretty thing, and by now probably beddable"). Ugh. And that's a girl he grew up with, Robb's sister. I remembered his other horrible moments with women, like the captain's daughter and Kyra, but somehow I forgot that one. Ramsay was really a devil on his shoulder, the personification of his dark side to the xth degree and taken to an extreme level.

As for the other characters, I find myself liking Catelyn much more on re-read. Not that I didn't like her before, she just wasn't my favorite compared to some other characters, I didn't relate to her as much or 'get' her that much, I guess, though her chapters were interesting. But now, knowing her whole story, it's all far more meaningful and stronger.

[Diregirl]

Theon deserved much better.

Theon had been deprived of his own family/heritage as a hostage of the Starks and did not become a part of the Stark "pack" either - and his whole unlucky attempt to conquer WInterfell is the result of his having been uprooted and not having found a home in Winterfell.

I so agree, he didn't deserve what Ramsay did to him.

[Diregirl]

I don't hate and despise Theon the way I did when I was first reading the books, and I can now see his crisis of identity and his troubled conscience (when he is having nightmares after having the miller's boys killed), but oh my gods, he was still such a douche. There were even douchey moments I didn't notice or had forgotten about - such as when he's contemplating how great it would be if Sansa was there so he could marry her to secure his hold on Winterfell ("a pretty thing, and by now probably beddable"). Ugh. And that's a girl he grew up with, Robb's sister. I remembered his other horrible moments with women, like the captain's daughter and Kyra, but somehow I forgot that one.

Yes, it's all pretty awful, but it's on worse than the general misogyny all over the place in Westeros. Think of Tysha, the way Tyron loves Shae but never takes her seriously, all the "wait until the wench has flowered and than marry her off to make a alliance with some other guy". This is what Theon has been exposed to all his life, and this is how he acts. And how old is he anyhow? Late teens? Are we actually expecting a teenage boy to behave more chivalrously and decently towards women than the grown-up men he's seen for years?

[Annara Snow]

Yes, it's all pretty awful, but it's on worse than the general misogyny all over the place in Westeros. Think of Tysha, the way Tyron loves Shae but never takes her seriously, all the "wait until the wench has flowered and than marry her off to make a alliance with some other guy". This is what Theon has been exposed to all his life, and this is how he acts. And how old is he anyhow? Late teens? Are we actually expecting a teenage boy to behave more chivalrously and decently towards women than the grown-up men he's seen for years?

Since the age of 10, he's mostly been exposed to Ned Stark as far as adult men go, maybe Maester Luwin, and Robb and Jon grew up in the same environment, so yes, one would expect much better. It would have been different if he had been growing up next to Euron and Victarion, but I find it unlikely that he formed much of an attitude to women before he was 10.

[Annara Snow]

Theon had been deprived of his own family/heritage as a hostage of the Starks and did not become a part of the Stark "pack" either - and his whole unlucky attempt to conquer WInterfell is the result of his having been uprooted and not having found a home in Winterfell.

I so agree, he didn't deserve what Ramsay did to him.

I don't think that anybody deserves what Ramsay did to him. Or, at the very least, very few people do. (Thinking of the Bloody Mummers, Gregor Clegane and his men, and similar.)

[JonSnowWASrapedByAlliser]

I thought Melisandre had a vision of Cressen and the small purple crystals, knew the poison, and took an antidote beforehand. Or, if not an antidote, she prepared her body through fire magic or a potion of her own, to induce a fever or such that might nullify the poisons effects.

About Theon - I also feel sorry for him. His first POV chapter, he is returning to the Iron Islands, and he is just smug as heck. He is expecting his father on the shores waiting for him, he is expecting a heroes welcome. He gets torn to pieces by his own people, they don't even have to try, they just dismiss him as laughable. He has completely forgotten the culture he was born into. Back at Winterfell, he was treated warmly, but faired about the same as Jon Snow. Theon has no people, he is like a spiritual bastard. I think he is really a little boy inside of his head, and that is why it was so easy for Ramsey to break him into the role of Reek, who is Theon's inner child - not some twisted product of torture alone, but something that was already within him.