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Fremdschämen / vicarious embarrassment


The Onion Sleight

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(Btw, is "vicarious embarrassment" the right English word for fremdschämen?)



What moment made you feel really ashamed for some character? What was really, really cringeworthy in your view?



For me, definitely the whole chapter with Theon and "Esgred". God, that was just... no :stillsick: ... way too much Fremdscham for me, especially when I reread it, I felt so pity for Theon and all the embarrassing stuff he said :lol:.

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Well, there is Dunk.



Dunk the lunk, thick as a castle wall



But in aSoIaF...maybe Jon's "Lord of Winterfell" story, Edmure with his stone mill and the floppy fish, and when Victarion/Cersei think stupid things.


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Ah, a fellow German :D

Yeah, Theon is a good candidate. Also, most of Cersei's chapters. Your dress not fitting any more is your servants' fault? Sure thing, mylady...

Like my dad who, before he got his glasses, swore that publishers were using smaller fonts all of a sudden.

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Like my dad who, before he got his glasses, swore that publishers were using smaller fonts all of a sudden.

My father is the same, except for him, it's the ears, not the eyes (or rather, he's had glasses forever now). He swears the telly is far too quiet when the rest of the family already feels like screaming at each other to make themselves understood...

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Victarion





"Where is this Dothraki sea?" he demanded. "I will sail the Iron Fleet across it and find the queen wherever she may be."


The fisherman laughed aloud. "That would be a sight worth seeing. The Dothraki sea is made of grass, fool."



Of course the fisherman was killed, but it was quite embarassing.



Then there is another Dunk moment, in the Mystery Knight




John the Fiddler paid the older man no mind. "I would love to cross swords with you, ser. I've tried men of many lands and races, but never one your size. Was your father large as well?" "I never knew my father, ser." "I am sad to hear it. Mine own sire was taken from me too soon.” The Fiddler turned to the lord of the three castles. "We should ask Ser Duncan to join our jolly company."



And also




"Where are you going, ser?"


"To my bed, to sleep. I'm drunk as a dog.


"Be my dog, ser. The night's alive with promise. We can howl together, and wake the very gods."



It is just that Daemon was so obviously attracted to Dunk and Dunk was just confused.


I doubt that any other man in the books would be as confused as him.


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Victarion

Of course the fisherman was killed, but it was quite embarassing.

Then there is another Dunk moment, in the Mystery Knight

And also

It is just that Daemon was so obviously attracted to Dunk and Dunk was just confused.

I doubt that any other man in the books would be as confused as him.

Poor Dunk :)

Robb's assaults on the West smallfolk

Tyrion's raping

Brienne not killing Jaime

Dany's assault on SB and dealing with the aftermath

Stannis burnings

These are hardly embarrassing moments. These are difficult/grey moments

ETA: Agree with the Esgred one. I also feel rather embarrassed for Tris Botley.

Botley blinked, as if he did not quite understand what she had said. “You…I thought you would wait. Why…” He rubbed his mouth. “Asha, were you forced?”

Oh, you :)

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The coolest, the German language. :D

Danelle, those are priceless. :D

I love German!

I think that we should have a thread for schadenfreude and aufhebung as well! :drunk:

Another Fremdschämen moment:

Quentyn Martell appears before the Mother of Dragons, a woman who has conquered Meereen, burned Astapor and now commands an army of Unsullied and freedmen. His purpose is to enchant her and convince her that he is the perfect man for her, not just for political reasons. He has to compete with the rather flamboyant Daario Naharis, who appears to be overprotective of Daenerys.

Quentyn is one step from completing an important part of Doran's plan by ensuring a Martell-Targaryen alliance. Not to mention that he is standing before a very beautiful woman, who has silver hair and purple eyes.

And then he does this

Stone-faced, the stocky lad bent, unlaced his boot, and drew a yellowed parchment from a hidden flap within.

I understant that his journey to Meeren was perilous, I understand that the parchment was precious, so he his it in his boot.

But his journey was over. He could have at least taken the parchment from his boot shortly before the meeting took place, or just hide it in a pocket.

Perhaps others weren't that disspointed by that minor detail, but for me it was just not the right thing to do when you appear before a monarch and you try to form an alliance.

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I think that we should have a thread for schadenfreude and aufhebung as well! :drunk:

Maybe this will interest you. It's a lovely article.

I've looked up aufhebung and I've given it some thought: having read "What do you think about Arianne Martell" thread and seeing as the latest news regarding the casting aren't as welcoming to both Dorne and Iron Islands...

Maybe the fandom's salty salty tears over this lady could fall under the inherent negation within aufhebung? :D It's a Dornish salty wife. Martell/Greyjoys are present and not present! Lemme know what you think. :D

Schadenfreude is precious to me. I'll have to think seriously about it.

But his journey was over. He could have at least taken the parchment from his boot shortly before the meeting took place, or just hide it in a pocket.

Perhaps others weren't that disspointed by that minor detail, but for me it was just not the right thing to do when you appear before a monarch and you try to form an alliance.

Had the parchment been described as smelly, I'd have died at the spot of sheer embarrassment. :D

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Tyrion pissing himself (happened after the Blackwater battle and when he was fleeing KL shortly after making his father shit himself).



Joffrey getting bitchslapped by a little girl and his sword thrown into the river. That's both Fremdscham and Schadenfreude.

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