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Jaehaerys I & Alysanne idealized versions of Elizabeth I?


Ocelot

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Building on my earlier theory that Maegor the Cruel was partially inspired by Henry VIII, I think that Jaehaerys I, Maegor's successor, and Jaehaerys's sister-wife Alysanne are idealized versions of Elizabeth I, Henry VIII's daughter. Jaehaerys was able to end the Iron Throne's conflict with the Faith through compromise, whereas Elizabeth was able to please most Englishmen by creating a Church of England that was a compromise between Catholicism and Protestantism, although England's wars of religion later started up again under the Stuarts. Elizabeth was called "Good Queen Bess" the way Alysanne was called "Good Queen Alysanne." Elizabeth and Jaehaerys both had very long reigns marked by peace and prosperity. And Elizabeth's main advisor for most of her reign was the highly capable William Cecil, the way Septon Barth served as an excellent Hand for Jaehaerys for 40 years. Of course, Elizabeth was not as nice as Jaehaerys and Alysanne; she had more than a streak of Tudor ruthlessness.



Anyone agree?


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If anyone is going to be Alyanne the Good I would have to argue that it would be Victoria. With her being a prude. Making the king abolish first night. Victoria has an entire period named after her, which just hammered home, England and by extension America'n being prudes as well. Yet that also comes from them being the descendants of the Puritans whom were by definition repressed.


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If anyone is going to be Alyanne the Good I would have to argue that it would be Victoria. With her being a prude. Making the king abolish first night. Victoria has an entire period named after her, which just hammered home, England and by extension America'n being prudes as well. Yet that also comes from them being the descendants of the Puritans whom were by definition repressed.

Actually, from diaries and other notes. Victoria was not the prude everyone takes her for. It has been noted that Prince albert was the prude in that relationship although they had many children yes. Of course we need not get into the later life of "Mrs. Brown".

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You're right, Jaehaerys & Alysanne do remind me of Victoria & Albert: long, peaceful, prosperous reign (in fact the longest reign ever in England); 9 children; commitment to chastity; and Victoria & Albert were actually 1st cousins, while J & A were brother and sister. And Victoria & Albert were very happily married.


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The Henry VIII in the story is actually more like Aegon IV, with Naerys as Catherine of Aragon.



I can buy the Victoria and Albert parallel (not the prude thing, but the partnership and boatload of kids), even though the time period of obviously out of whack. I also catch traces of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine, even though Aegon III is more Henry II-ish overall.


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Building on my earlier theory that Maegor the Cruel was partially inspired by Henry VIII, I think that Jaehaerys I, Maegor's successor, and Jaehaerys's sister-wife Alysanne are idealized versions of Elizabeth I, Henry VIII's daughter. Jaehaerys was able to end the Iron Throne's conflict with the Faith through compromise, whereas Elizabeth was able to please most Englishmen by creating a Church of England that was a compromise between Catholicism and Protestantism, although England's wars of religion later started up again under the Stuarts. Elizabeth was called "Good Queen Bess" the way Alysanne was called "Good Queen Alysanne." Elizabeth and Jaehaerys both had very long reigns marked by peace and prosperity. And Elizabeth's main advisor for most of her reign was the highly capable William Cecil, the way Septon Barth served as an excellent Hand for Jaehaerys for 40 years. Of course, Elizabeth was not as nice as Jaehaerys and Alysanne; she had more than a streak of Tudor ruthlessness.

Anyone agree?

There might be a superficial comparison, so you may be right.

BUT here comes my anti-Tudor spiel.

She drained the royal coffers and handed James a bankrupt state making it very difficult for the Stuarts to get a foothold.

Wars of Religion is Stuart England? No. James did more for religious coexistence than Elizabeth did, far more. There was a controversy with Archbishop Laud and Henrietta Maria, but there were no religious wars. The Stuarts, by and large, attempted to stay out of the continent affairs as much as possible. For most of the century the Dutch were the major issue, and many in England favored what became known as the Spanish Match. The post CW Stuarts were Catholic, and the English Civil War certainly had religious undertones but the ECW was not a direct result of Catholicism. There was more bloodshed under Elizabeth due to religion than either James or Charles. Also from 1580-1603 the English were in almost constant warfare against the Spanish either in Ireland or the Netherlands. Elizabeth's refusal to marry also created an enormous amount of tension, and her constant use of privateers could have left England in ruins as it provoked Spain far too often; which provided enough fuel for the 19th century Whig historians to call on divine providence as England's savior and label it English exceptionalism at its finest. Elizabeth's most ruthless attribute was her ability to be the most indecisive monarch aside from her father. If you look closely at the campaigns, most of the time her men ignored her predominately due to her innate ability to never make a decision and stick with it.

I will give you the point about the CoE, but there is a reason Catholics in England were "hidden". Only recently have historians (predominately Questier) uncovered major sects of Catholics hidden in the southern provinces of England. ELizabeth was fine with Catholics, as long as they shut up and kept quite.

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I personally think Sansa is more of an Elizabeth I.

[LIKES TO RESOLVE CONFLICT VIA COMPROMISE, Follows both faiths, likely to be a good queen, developing a streak of ruthlessness due to LF]

And both Sansa and Elizabeth I had red hair.

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The Henry VIII in the story is actually more like Aegon IV, with Naerys as Catherine of Aragon.

I can buy the Victoria and Albert parallel (not the prude thing, but the partnership and boatload of kids), even though the time period of obviously out of whack. I also catch traces of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine, even though Aegon III is more Henry II-ish overall.

Henry VIII was definitely not a brainless satyromaniac like Aegon IV; Henry only had one bastard, a couple of mistresses, and he was a highly educated man who spoke several languages fluently. Henry didn't do things like deflower 3 virgin sisters in one night, or sire bastards on countless common women. Really, the only thing Aegon IV & Henry VIII have in common is that they're both very fat (and Henry was actually very athletic and handsome when he was young).

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Henry VIII was definitely not a brainless satyromaniac like Aegon IV; Henry only had one bastard, a couple of mistresses, and he was a highly educated man who spoke several languages fluently. Henry didn't do things like deflower 3 virgin sisters in one night, or sire bastards on countless common women. Really, the only thing Aegon IV & Henry VIII have in common is that they're both very fat (and Henry was actually very athletic and handsome when he was young).

GRRM has called Aegon IV the Henry VIII of Westeros. So yeah. Aegon IV might be a more over-the-top version of Henry, sure, but he's still the best approximation in the story.

Aegon IV also had the incredibly pious wife, Naerys, just like Henry had Catherine of Aragon. And while Henry Fitzroy might be Henry's only acknowledged bastard, to say he definitely only had one is hardly accurate.

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The Henry VIII in the story is actually more like Aegon IV, with Naerys as Catherine of Aragon.

I can buy the Victoria and Albert parallel (not the prude thing, but the partnership and boatload of kids), even though the time period of obviously out of whack. I also catch traces of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine, even though Aegon III is more Henry II-ish overall.

Have to disagree with the Henry and Eleanor parallel, that was not a happy marriage in the slightest and they certainly didn't trust each other as Jahaerys and Alysanne did.

I think the inspiration is likely Edward III and Phillipa of Hainault myself. Lot's of legitimate children, extremely popular wife, good relationship. Succeeded by grandson too.

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Have to disagree with the Henry and Eleanor parallel, that was not a happy marriage in the slightest and they certainly didn't trust each other as Jahaerys and Alysanne did.

I think the inspiration is likely Edward III and Phillipa of Hainault myself. Lot's of legitimate children, extremely popular wife, good relationship.

Yeah I agree that it isn't a straight parallel, especially since Rhaenyra-Aegon II-Aegon III-Daeron I follow the Matilda-Stephen-Henry II-Richard I mold more closely. It just jumped out, mostly due to Eleanor's power and prominence on her own.

Edward III and Phillipa crossed my mind, too, although I think Aegon V is more like Edward III in a lot of respects, namely by being the common ancestor for both our Yorks (Baratheons) and Lancasters (Targaryens).

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Yeah I agree that it isn't a straight parallel, especially since Rhaenyra-Aegon II-Aegon III-Daeron I follow the Matilda-Stephen-Henry II-Richard I mold more closely. It just jumped out, mostly due to Eleanor's power and prominence on her own.

Edward III and Phillipa crossed my mind, too, although I think Aegon V is more like Edward III in a lot of respects, namely by being the common ancestor for both our Yorks (Baratheons) and Lancasters (Targaryens).

I can see a mix of the two if not more Targaryens personally. Jaehaerys is similar in a number of ways including almost an equal length to their reign. The only thing that sets him apart clearly in my mind is his lack of interest in warfare. Clearly not the case with Edward. I've actually never seen that comparison to the Yorkists and Lancasters made before strangely enough but that's such a complex issue probably best left for another thread.

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I can see a mix of the two if not more Targaryens personally. Jaehaerys is similar in a number of ways including almost an equal length to their reign. The only thing that sets him apart clearly in my mind is his lack of interest in warfare. Clearly not the case with Edward. I've actually never seen that comparison to the Yorkists and Lancasters made before strangely enough but that's such a complex issue probably best left for another thread.

Really? I thought the parallels were pretty blatant. But yes, another thread.

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Yeah I agree that it isn't a straight parallel, especially since Rhaenyra-Aegon II-Aegon III-Daeron I follow the Matilda-Stephen-Henry II-Richard I mold more closely. It just jumped out, mostly due to Eleanor's power and prominence on her own.

Edward III and Phillipa crossed my mind, too, although I think Aegon V is more like Edward III in a lot of respects, namely by being the common ancestor for both our Yorks (Baratheons) and Lancasters (Targaryens).

I think Henry II has more in common to the conquer and Visanya Eleanor.
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I think Henry II has more in common to the conquer and Visanya Eleanor.

As Apple mentioned in an earlier post Aegon III is the clearest parallel to Henry II on account of his succession, length and arguably quality of reign. Even their sons Daeron the young dragon and Richard the Lionheart have similarities.

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As Apple mentioned in an earlier post Aegon III is the clearest parallel to Henry II on account of his succession, length and arguably quality of reign. Even their sons Daeron the young dragon and Richard the Lionheart have similarities.

Henry like Aegon turned his family of foreigners to kings and expanded his dominion vastly. Also the Maegor John thing plays as well. Don't want to be banned again, I just say a little prince shared May as well be named a Arthur.

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