Is The Wall Pointless?

[Liver & onions]

It's believed that The Wall is the magical barrier keeping White Walkers from bringing The Long Night to Westeros. So that leaves option number 2 and my silly question. Why not do the opposite of what Quaithe tells Dany?

To go south...why not go north?

Why not just march north and enter Westeros via the south into Dorne? The Lands of Always Winter ain't a problem for them and if White Walkers bring the cold, ice, winter and all that...they should be able to cross whatever they eventually come across by freezing it, right? What's stopping them from going north?

[LordStoneheart]

Because they want their continent back. They will take what is theirs with ice and blood.

[JonisHenryTudor]

I am just trying to imagine an army of WW's sailing to Dorne.

[Crowford]

What's to say this is in any way a feasible option? We don't know how big that planet is. Martin once said that Westeros was the size of South America, so let's just assume that he also envisions the planet as about Earth-sized, which is of course pure speculation. Let's further assume that the northernmost part of Westeros is near the North Pole, which is pure speculation as well. So what you are suggesting is that the Others start from somewhere around Canada (a bit North of the wall), travel across the North Pole, then across the whole planet again (wouldn't matter where), across the South Pole, and then up South America, until the reach the southernmost point of the land they apparently wish to conquer (which might not even be true). That's roughly 35.000-40.000 km. And since we never found out what's on the other side, or even other hemisphere of the planet, that might all be water.

And of course, that whole exercise is silly anyway, because if the Others had the ability to cross large bodies of water, they could just go far enough out to sea and then go ashore south of the wall, because whatever it's protective effect, it surely doesn't span the whole globe (and if it does, then going north wouldn't change that, since they'd still have to cross that invisible threshold.

[Talking Hodor]

I don't see what's stopping the Others from just freezing the ocean and walking around the wall via their new glacier path.

[Mitbert Strangejoy]

The entirety of Westeros appears to experience seasons at the same time, so it is presumably entirely in the same (northern) hemisphere. The distance between the Land of Always Winter and Dorne is presumably vast, and as far as we know, it could be blocked by an unknown landmass.

[dbunting]

I don't know how magical the wall really is. They believe it can stop them from passing through and yet, they brought the two KW bodies with them and they "woke" up on the south side of the wall. If the wall was truly magical why could they pass and ressurect on the other side? You would think the magic of the wall would interfere with whatever is controlling the wights but it didn't.

And you could just go around it at the edge anyway.

[King of Winters]

Have you ever thought that maybe that WW don't want to go south? That maybe they just want Man out of the Lands of the Old Races (COTF, Giants, Ravens)?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I don't know how magical the wall really is. They believe it can stop them from passing through and yet, they brought the two KW bodies with them and they "woke" up on the south side of the wall. If the wall was truly magical why could they pass and ressurect on the other side? You would think the magic of the wall would interfere with whatever is controlling the wights but it didn't.

And you could just go around it at the edge anyway.

But these corpses hat to be carried. They apparently couldn't pass it on their own power.

While we don't know the specific metaphysics, it's probably safe to assume that the Gorge and the sea provides a barrier as well. Probably an even better one than the Wall, since the NW never had castles along the Gorge.

[dbunting]

^ @ Bright Blue Eyes... Why would the sea be a barrier? It should freeze over in winter and they can simply walk on it?

Also, we assume they had to be carried. Maybe they simply hadn't "awoken" yet.

One thing to remember is Jon feels disconnected to Ghost when they are on opposite sides of the wall, so it seems to block something, just not entirely!?!?!?

I don't doubt the wall has magical properties, I am just taking a contrary stance to further the discussion.

[Light a wight tonight]

I don't know how magical the wall really is. They believe it can stop them from passing through and yet, they brought the two KW bodies with them and they "woke" up on the south side of the wall. If the wall was truly magical why could they pass and ressurect on the other side? You would think the magic of the wall would interfere with whatever is controlling the wights but it didn't.

And you could just go around it at the edge anyway.

I like this point. The magic in the wall should prevent the spell or whatever it is that animates the wights from passing, so only the corpses, minus that, would pass through. We obviously don't understand what's involved.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

^ @ Bright Blue Eyes... Why would the sea be a barrier? It should freeze over in winter and they can simply walk on it?

I'll let you know as soon as I've read Brandon the Builder's plans and magic specifications in the original and a treaty on the Others' physiology written by one of their doctors.

Also, we assume they had to be carried. Maybe they simply hadn't "awoken" yet.

They had the eyes, they didn't rot. The magic was very much at work. Furthermore, in every other case, the wights rose after hours at the latest. Those two corpses had been corpses for weeks.

[Fanless Mace]

The sea only freezes way way way up north close to the pole. It doesn't freeze over on most of the Earth in winter, so assuming a similar aspect on Planetos, the WWs would still need to cross open seas to get south of the wall.

The OP assumes their power allows them to freeze a great body of water when in fact there is no evidence their power can overcome the enormity and strength of an entire ocean.

If they wanted to cross south of the wall AND they could freeze huge-ass swaths of ocean, they'd have done it. So we can guess that either ( a ) they don't want to move south and/or ( b ) they can't freeze an ocean.

As for going north over the poles:

1) they may not know the world is round, or that there is anything north of north other than wasteland and water.

2) they may not have access to nourishment while traveling across frozen seas (we don't know if they need sustenance).

3) Maybe they've tried and gotten lost. With no maps and no familiar stars to guide them in the Southern Hemisphere, they'd be lucky to stumble onto Dorne.

4) they might melt or otherwise suffer or not be viable in warmer climes. Perhaps the wall helps keep them where they won't suffer?

[The Mother of The Others]

It blocks the radio signal for remote zombie control. But when I look on the map I see a spot on the left side of the wall where there's land but no wall, so I'd try sending my zombies through there, and if they can get through then I'd say the wall is pretty pointless yeah. But disregard that if there's natural land barriers there on the left side that make it impassible. But then hold on a minute longer and give me a chance to send my zombies down into whatever cleft or chasm exists there and then up the other side because they're dead and don't take much damage from climbing accidents, so they should be able to get across the divide in 50 years or less of constant struggle. Then BranBuilder will look silly for covering only 95% of the distance with his wall. Also, while those zombies are traversing down then up again slowly over a human lifespan, I'd also look into the easier option of walking the beaches on the eastern coast to see if I could outflank the wall just by getting my feet wet and walking 5 feet out into the waves. That's definitely something to try, and I might even try that first before the arduous mountaineering exercise on the west edge of the wall. If you can just follow the beaches to get past the wall that brings the wall's pointlessness to the forefront. Does the wall have anti-beach lasers we haven't heard about because Eastwatch hasn't been tested yet? That would be exciting.

Hmmm. Water melts ice cubes. The Others maybe can't wade out into the sea to accompany their dead forces, and then their zombies pass out of their control once the wall blocks the signal, so there's no organized invasion with staying power even if some beach blanket zombos were to eek south of the barrier.

[TheOldWolf]

I am just trying to imagine an army of WW's sailing to Dorne.

So am I, if that happened maybe a kraken could eat them all and their ships

[JoeyBanana]

I don't think the wall made out of ice was biult to stop the Others. It's either their work to halt human expansion or it's there to stop a big and scary weapon of the Others, say stone giants or ice dragons or whatever.

I'm convinced there are already some Others south of the wall, especially those that killed Wymar Royce in the aGoT prologue.The blizzard sounds awfully like Tormund's stories about the Others using weather and snow to decimate humans without being discovered. Then there's obviously the strong connection between the Starks and Others, which makes it even more likely they'd show up there (WF) at some point.

[Ser Creighton]

Whoever said the the two men in the cells had been turned? The animals don't fear them, no mention of blue eyes they were near a fire when they died. No mention of how they died though, starvation, wounds. The previous two that had been turned had every indication of being turned. Although the argument that the Others can't effect what is on the Other side of the wall is unknown. Clearly they still functioned they killed a bunch of people. Being carried through the wall was an easy way of getting past the wall. I mean they were laying there not moving for a reason. It's actually a good plan and the Target seemed to be Mormont the LC who would of died if not for Ghost and Jon.

The only time we have seen a Wight Rise was Royce, who was killed by an Other. The Others may need to be within a certain proximity in order to Wight a corpse.

They also seem to accept sacrifice which will keep them at bay which is a form of worship. The faith mentions the Others will not kill the devout though it may be they won't kill those who are devout to them or their gods.

It's interesting to point out they appeared to know that the watch would come upon those two turned bodies and new exactly when to leave them. This also occurred during the day, they rose that night. It was a pretty good plan and almost worked. Though why would they want the LC dead?

In Jon' own dream the wall did not stop the Wights. Meanwhile the Others are gathering their strength. Hardhome is a nice fat target, they are starving there, lots of dead, 6 ships and dead things in the water.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The only time we have seen a Wight Rise was Royce, who was killed by an Other. The Others may need to be within a certain proximity in order to Wight a corpse.

Same as Thistle, Small Paul, Tormund's son and a couple no-names. In each and every case, the supernatural cold indicating the Others nearby or an outright Other was present.

[Ali Colak]

We’re not exactly sure how their magic works, nor the extent of its abilities. I’d always believed that the others would have to claim a certain peace of (preferably through bloodshed) land, than take some time to claim that land magically, make it a land more conducive to them and their needs, and then move on from there to do the same thing to other lands. It may be that certain types of ritualistic rules are involved in the way they function, which could make what you suggest very difficult.

[JonisHenryTudor]

So am I, if that happened maybe a kraken could eat them all and their ships

Brain freeze!