Arya Stark Rules Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 So I joined the forum recently and I've seen people use quotes in the story to say that it is "forshadowing" of something that will happen. Some of them seem plausible like the dead wolf at the beginning of AGOT foreshadowing Ned's death and at the same time ive seen ridiculous ones like people arm movements foreshadowing something will happen to someone else or people scratching an itch foreshadowing someone will become a king :rolleyes: The purpose of this thread is to see what really is foreshadowing and what really isn't. Or in other words what do we have to look for in order to say it could be foreshadowing? Cause I'm sure not every sentence in the story is foreshadowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Like you say, some foreshadowing does seem very plausible and is widely accepted.Other examples of foreshadowing are often a case of: I think this will happen in the future books, so I'm going to take all of these quotes out of context and twist them to fit my ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 You're never going to get agreement here. Much of the fandom has a somewhat, err, liberal interpretation of what foreshadowing is, which comes down to all kinds of randomness that is almost certainly meaningless, but you will never convince them of that, so it's best not even to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yea, I think it's frequently misused. By definition, something can only be foreshadowing if the event it's preparing you for actually happens. That is, you can really only call something "foreshadowing" conclusively when the future event it's ostensibly referencing actually occurs. So anything that says "X is a case of foreshadowing Y future event in a book that's not been published yet" isn't truly using the term correctly. I hasten to add that I'm sometimes guilty, though my workaround is to call it "potential foreshadowing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It all depends on the person calling upon what they believe is a foreshadow, how someone sees the evidence etc... For me, some of these cases look like Adobe PDF search tool practice... You enter the word in that search box and there you have the instances where the word is mention. I am guilty of doing that once when I created loving thread about Tommen surviving the series :), but I see people on daily basis doing this. They search the text, then "interpret" in their own way, following God knows what logic, and then present us with theories that usually have these words either bolded or colored. The fact is that no theory based solely on foreshadowing is valid. There is narrative, character development, many things to consider before arguing that "something is foreshadowed by..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yeah, some people deviate from the actual definition and purpose of foreshadowing here. For example, predicting how Dany will respond to the Long Night based on her having a normal reaction about ants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 GRRM gives us multiple levels of clues - very subtle ones, not so subtle ones, and then uses the sledgehammer. There are implicit and explicit hints to the future novels of the books, that much is clear. But there are indeed a lot of sense here on the boards which really don't make any sense at all, insofar as the text is concerned. To take any quote whatsoever to fit the needs of certain theory. This especially worse, in my opinion, when past events are used to imagine the future events (i.e. we can learn from the First Dance how the Second is going to happen - Night's King stuff etc.). GRRM may be an author who likes to give clues, but that doesn't mean that there are hints in every line. The books tell a story, they are not providing us with a blueprint to deduce what's going to happen next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It will be impossible to know what's been foreshadowed until the series is over :(. Introducing cyvasse has certainly not helped anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The author certainly uses it, but sometimes readers just build theories based on one-line of foreshadowing, that could very well be just a coincidence. sometimes we see what we want to see. The longer the next book takes to get finished, the more imaginative readers get analyzing alleged foreshadowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It's impossible to know what exactly is "foreshadowed" until the books are done. We can only speculate on what is going to happen based on certain events. Personally, I like to believe a big foreshadowing is when characters say or think they will or won't do something, specially when we know there are other options that they don't know. For example, 1. Balon Swann telling Jaime he definitely absolutely no way never ever will do what Jaime did, killing the King. Considering he's the only one of the bunch -besides Jaime and Loras- who has a sense of honour, I think that given the circumstances, he might even be the one choking Cersei after she asks him to do something horrible. Or simply go and rebel against the King for the sake of his family. 2. Connington saying he will put Rhaegar's son on the throne. He might end up doing that, but not the "son" currently on his possession. 3. Quentyn thinking "Adventure stank". Yeah, it can't be clearer than that :lol: The rest are just clues and hints that alone might or might not mean anything. Parallels alone aren't foreshadowing either. When we simply start thinking everything means something, even the smallest details, words or behaviours, we end up with stuff like this: http://unplottables.wordpress.com/weasley-is-our-king/. A well thought theory, yes, that I often use to prove others that we end up seeing what WE WANT to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The author certainly uses it, but sometimes readers just build theories based on one-line of foreshadowing, that could very well be just a coincidence. sometimes we see what we want to see. The longer the next book takes to get finished, the more imaginative readers get analyzing alleged foreshadowing. I agree, Too-Fat and I'm pleased that you recognize this as problematic. This is why it's especially frustrating having a discussion with someone who insists that one line will dictate the future plot and that what is actually written is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I agree, Too-Fat and I'm pleased that you recognize this as problematic. This is why it's especially frustrating having a discussion with someone who insists that one line will dictate the future plot and that what is actually written is irrelevant. and who did that? i think you are refering to Second life stuff? if i based one opinion on one line, then yes, you would be right.. The thing is that it´s not one liner.. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79816-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up/ http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/86094-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up-part-2/ there are quite a few ones. some of them pretty solid. Even the Tv show drops hints on this.. As well as some comments of GRRM.. and of course the huge R+L=J.. that gives him the claim. and that is the biggest and most developed theory in the whole story.. Certainly thinking Jon will be king is based upon much much more than one line of "foreshadowing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Madam Mim Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The term "foreshadowing" is massively overused here. There are many instances of genuine 'foreshadowing' which GRRM throws in but it feels like many folks will twist things (which happens to fit with the theories they have just conjured up) to cite as instances of foreshadowing and use this as support in their argument. I also think people confuse foreshadowing with other literary devices which GRRM uses when they actually mean symbolism etc. ...moan over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The term "foreshadowing" is massively overused here. There are many instances of genuine 'foreshadowing' which GRRM throws in but it feels like many folks will twist things (which happens to fit with the theories they have just conjured up) to cite as instances of foreshadowing and use this as support in their argument. I also think people confuse foreshadowing with other literary devices which GRRM uses when they actually mean symbolism etc. ...moan over... :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: This. There are definitely more literary devices than foreshadowing, or whatever the person making theories thinks foreshadowing means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yep, a lot of alleged foreshadowing is utter horse shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The potential foreshadowing of future plot / character developements is just a game we play while waiting for the next book. It's fun and sometimes even constructive, as far as 1) we don't take our predictions too seriously or, worse, as facts and 2) as Mladen said, there are many things to consider like narrative and character developement. (more often than not it results to rediculus crackpotting that is not even fun :( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 and who did that? i think you are refering to Second life stuff? if i based one opinion on one line, then yes, you would be right.. The thing is that it´s not one liner.. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79816-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up/ http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/86094-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up-part-2/ there are quite a few ones. some of them pretty solid. Even the Tv show drops hints on this.. As well as some comments of GRRM.. and of course the huge R+L=J.. that gives him the claim. and that is the biggest and most developed theory in the whole story.. Certainly thinking Jon will be king is based upon much much more than one line of "foreshadowing". Oh, well obviously I'm not talking about all of the easter eggs about Jon being king. The major theory, R+L=J, generally supports that Jon was born a king. These threads you linked also rely on that premise. I'm definitely pointing out the frustration from that other thread where you based your entire argument on one line. And that's why I agree with your initial post in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Foreshadowing and metaphor are often abused, everything foreshadows to what someone wants and metaphors are often very very vague and broadly used. What Foreshadowing is, is when four shadows get together and do some shadowing. Shadowing is like creeping but with shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Oh, well obviously I'm not talking about all of the easter eggs about Jon being king. The major theory, R+L=J, generally supports that Jon was born a king. These threads you linked also rely on that premise. I'm definitely pointing out the frustration from that other thread where you based your entire argument on one line. And that's why I agree with your initial post in this thread. Never did. I just picked one that´s usually pointed out as a particulary strong one. The second life is recurrent issue, and not really based upon one-line of foreshadowing but rather multiple explicit things.. For instance, twice in Jon´s arc, he ponders about this issue. So no, don´t be mistaken, i didn´t base my opinion on one line (not that i haven´t done so in other topics) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Foreshadowing and metaphor are often abused, everything foreshadows to what someone wants and metaphors are often very very vague and broadly used. What Foreshadowing is, is when four shadows get together and do some shadowing. Shadowing is like creeping but with shadows.:lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.