Ocelot Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The rulers of various Free Cities often pay tribute to the Dothraki so the Dothraki won't attack and sack them. However, it doesn't make any sense to me that walled cities could be seriously threatened and even sacked by undisciplined hordes w/ no armor to protect from arrows shot by the city's defenders or siege weapons for breaking down walls and destroying other defense forces. The Mongols had armor and actually advanced the strategic use of siege weapons. If Dothraki were to surround a walled city, couldn't the city's defenders just send volleys of arrows and other projectiles at them which they would be defenseless against because they had no armor? I'd really appreciate comments from someone who knows something about medieval warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Weinergaryen Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 There are a lot of things that can be done to lay siege to a city, aside from tearing down walls and building. I would imagine a lot of the threat the the Dothraki posed was in inhibiting trade necessary to keep cities fed. They would not have to get through city walls to prevent food from making it into the city as the pastures and herds would be outside the city walls. Cities are densely populated but tend not to contain self-sustaining resources. Also, its probably just easier to pay them to go away, rather than building and maintaining the sort of standing force that would be needed to drive away every Khal with a wild hair for some Pentoshi wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Dothraki are no undisciplined hordes, GGRM created them based on central asian nomadic tribes who were among most fearsome armies in the mankind, and you do not have to sack a city to have them yield, a typical tactics of them would be raid your countryside when it is the season for planting seeds, and come again in the fall to ruin your havest, repean these action for a few years, then unless you can defeat them in an open battle, you would have no other choice but to yield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryden Tully Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think the key is a walled city, it's a lot harder to defend than a castle. Castles tended to not only have elaborate deference but also would have a specialist garrison where as the free cities would be reliant on sellswords and city guards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 There not, they pay tibute because it is cheap and dothraki are needed in the slave trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creticus Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The rulers of various Free Cities often pay tribute to the Dothraki so the Dothraki won't attack and sack them. However, it doesn't make any sense to me that walled cities could be seriously threatened and even sacked by undisciplined hordes w/ no armor to protect from arrows shot by the city's defenders or siege weapons for breaking down walls and destroying other defense forces. The Mongols had armor and actually advanced the strategic use of siege weapons. If Dothraki were to surround a walled city, couldn't the city's defenders just send volleys of arrows and other projectiles at them which they would be defenseless against because they had no armor? I'd really appreciate comments from someone who knows something about medieval warfare. The Dothraki can't take cities, but they can still burn and loot the surrounding countryside. Cities are going to have a hard time feeding their people if they don't have the countryside growing food, particularly if it gets burned and looted on a semi-regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 you would be under seige, unable to resupply, crops could not be grown and harvested etc..... they would starve you out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Save they believe siege is pointless and just leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 We're talking about cheesemongers, slave masters, winesellers and other plumpy useless lord that depend on sellswords and slaves... Yes, thick walls may keep the dothraki out, but khalasars can simply starve you out and you don't want to depend on slaves and sellswords when it comes to a very long siege.It just simpler to pay tributes than having to mantain great forces at all times just in case some Khal wanted some pentoshi cheese.... you just need to remember Vaes Dothrak to realize how many other cheesemongers had the same idea and then paid with their heads and their women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 They can't. The Free Cities pay because it's vastly cheaper than raising an army to destroy the Dothraki once and for all, or to suffer the economic consequences of the Dothraki raiding the countryside. Dothraki are no undisciplined hordes, GGRM created them based on central asian nomadic tribes who were among most fearsome armies in the mankind, and you do not have to sack a city to have them yield, a typical tactics of them would be raid your countryside when it is the season for planting seeds, and come again in the fall to ruin your havest, repean these action for a few years, then unless you can defeat them in an open battle, you would have no other choice but to yieldNope. Mongols and huns and skythes and all the rest had elaborate societies, brains, heavy armor and a lot more going for them. Whom they are modelled after are these guys: http://abortionsforall.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/road1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bittersteel Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Dothraki destroy surrounding countryside City Starves City surrenders They don't need siege weapons to win if they can't be beaten in the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The tribute is probably cheaper than raising levies, hiring free companies and disrupting trade to slap down every other Khalasar that comes marauding out of the Dothraki sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 They could surround cities and do it quite well. They are used to living off the land and probably drink mare's milk like Mongols so they could outlast most walled cities. The answer to being fired at by arrows and artillery is simply moving further away. (duh) The other option is if they captured slaves from previous conflicts is to force them to build siege equipment. Again what the Mongols did. They could also sack and destroy unfortified towns until the owners are forced to come out and do something. I find the idea that it's cheaper to pay tribute complete BS. Civilizations have pride and don't like to be some one's bitch. Can you imagine any nation in real life paying tribute to another nation that they themselves could easily destroy. It doesn't happen. It also might be "cheaper" but I guarantee it isn't cheap. The slave trade thing is also bull because imagine this. Your garbage man is a little person. He does his job quite well but every now and then he knocks on your door and demands a few hundred dollars or he'll burn your house down. No one would take that shit. They'd either kick the little guys ass or get him arrested. Then they'd easily find some other guy willing to take out their trash. I await the illogical replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I await the illogical replies.So the Danegeld wasn't a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So the Danegeld wasn't a thing? Can you imagine any nation in real life paying tribute to another nation that they themselves could easily destroy. If the French and English could have handled the Viking menace then there's not a chance they would've payed that tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I find the idea that it's cheaper to pay tribute complete BS. Civilizations have pride and don't like to be some one's bitch. Can you imagine any nation in real life paying tribute to another nation that they themselves could easily destroy. It doesn't happen. It also might be "cheaper" but I guarantee it isn't cheap.Civilizations maybe. Merchant princes, less so. And bribes to the leaders of barbaric tribes which could theoretically be easily destroyed are older than the written word. Egyptians, Macedonians, Romans, medieval Europeans, colonialist Europeans and Americans, even modern countries do it. It's happening right this moment. If the French and English could have handled the Viking menace then there's not a chance they would've payed that tax.Oh, they could handle them, and did. It was sometimes just easier on the economy to pay a bit of silver instead of rebuilding an entire region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphodbrx Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Illyrio says that the Lord of Light would hold Pentos against a million Dothraki. I believe him.Actually Illyrio's comments about the Dothraki throw a lot of insight into the thinking of the free cities. The Dothraki do not really threaten walled cities, but they raid all the surrounding villages and are a general nuisance. That's why they are bought off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The slave trade thing is also bull because imagine this. Your garbage man is a little person. He does his job quite well but every now and then he knocks on your door and demands a few hundred dollars or he'll burn your house down. No one would take that shit. They'd either kick the little guys ass or get him arrested. Then they'd easily find some other guy willing to take out their trash. I await the illogical replies. Ur, um, I am not sure this is the best analogy. Imagine yourre a spice importer in Myr. You make a tidy profit selling spices from the far east to people in Myr. You would rather not send your fleet to Quarth or Asshai . It's easier to send them to Mereen or New Ghis. How does Mereen and New Ghis obtain valuable spices? They trade slaves for spices. So what happens if there are no slaves for Mereen or New Ghis to trade? Well, you don't get your spices, at least not without having to send a merchant fleet half way around the world . And who ensures that that there a healthy supply of slaves? Apparently the Dothraki. You're a Banker in Pentos. You make a tidy sum financing and insuring Mr. Myr Spice Importer's activities. You now the basics of Mr. Spice Importer's operation. Accordingly, you know that if Mr. Spice Importer can't get spices in Mereen he isn't probably coming to you for a loan and insurance. You might, therefore, want to keep the Dothraki in business. Or you are a wealthy merchant in Pentos. Most of your business is legit, but you make bit of coin selling slaves illegally to selected clients. You might not want to see the slave trade end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lee knot Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Civilizations maybe. Merchant princes, less so. And bribes to the leaders of barbaric tribes which could theoretically be easily destroyed are older than the written word. Egyptians, Macedonians, Romans, medieval Europeans, colonialist Europeans and Americans, even modern countries do it. It's happening right this moment. Oh, they could handle them, and did. It was sometimes just easier on the economy to pay a bit of silver instead of rebuilding an entire region. 1st Give me some examples. 2d The fact that they were still a big enough threat have to pay off kind of proves you wrong. Ur, um, I am not sure this is the best analogy. Imagine yourre a spice importer in Myr. You make a tidy profit selling spices from the far east to people in Myr. You would rather not send your fleet to Quarth or Asshai . It's easier to send them to Mereen or New Ghis. How does Mereen and New Ghis obtain valuable spices? They trade slaves for spices. So what happens if there are no slaves for Mereen or New Ghis to trade? Well, you don't get your spices, at least not without having to send a merchant fleet half way around the world . And who ensures that that there a healthy supply of slaves? Apparently the Dothraki. You're a Banker in Pentos. You make a tidy sum financing and insuring Mr. Myr Spice Importer's activities. You now the basics of Mr. Spice Importer's operation. Accordingly, you know that if Mr. Spice Importer can't get spices in Mereen he isn't probably coming to you for a loan and insurance. You might, therefore, want to keep the Dothraki in business. Or you are a wealthy merchant in Pentos. Most of your business is legit, but you make bit of coin selling slaves illegally to selected clients. You might not want to see the slave trade end. You totally missed the point. There will always be someone willing to take out the trash. In this case you destroy the Dothraki Khalasars that have the gall to threaten you and the weaker ones learn not to mess with you. EDIT: Someone will fill in the missing part of the food chain. They always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 King Robert of all people explains it pretty well in this scene added by the show. It's not an exact analogy since he's talking about Westeros (and the Iron Throne) instead of the Free Cities of Essos but the basic idea would still be applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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