If R + L Were Married, How Were They Married And Who Married Them?

[RumHam]

With this, Maegor was the last Targ king to have multiple wives when there was still a Faith Militant. After Jaehaerys negotiated disarming of the FM, there really isn't the fear that the Faith could truly endanger the crown. Jaehaerys had his own septon in his pocket and there are later cases of the crown appointing the High Septon. Baelor I, for example. The tradition of the crown having say in who the HS is seemed to continue through Robert Baratheon's rule. When the crown has a major say in who the HS is, the HS is less likely to really make a stink about marrying brothers and sisters. There need not be different religious rituals because the crown is now the power behind the Faith.

It is still interesting that Maegor was the last one (except possibly Rhaegar) to take multiple wives. I don't rule out that possibility that Jaehaerys agreed no to do that anymore as part of his deal with the Faith.

[Dr. Pepper]

It is still interesting that Maegor was the last one (except possibly Rhaegar) to take multiple wives. I don't rule out that possibility that Jaehaerys agreed no to do that anymore as part of his deal with the Faith.

Well, he's the last one we know about, but GRRM has said that there might be others. The Faith has a strong opposition to incest, but nothing is said of polygamy so if Jaehaerys really wanted to mollify the Faith, he would have agreed no more incest. Though he was married to his sister so that would be a very empty promise.

[RumHam]

Well, he's the last one we know about, but GRRM has said that there might be others. The Faith has a strong opposition to incest, but nothing is said of polygamy so if Jaehaerys really wanted to mollify the Faith, he would have agreed no more incest. Though he was married to his sister so that would be a very empty promise.

I think if there was another example of a Targaryen king with multiple wives we'd know by now, from the App or something. You're right technically there could be another one in there somewhere, maybe a Targaryen who never reigned as king.

I don't think Jaehaerys would even consider giving up incest. The worldbook sample on the Conquests confirmed that Dragonlords would practice incest to keep their blood pure. I think it's safe to assume they did this to keep the ability to ride their dragons. So Jaehaerys would really not want to abandon the practice of incest and risk having grandsons or great grandsons who could not ride dragons. Polygamy on the other hand had pretty much only cause succession problems.

[Dr. Pepper]

I think if there was another example of a Targaryen king with multiple wives we'd know by now, from the App or something. You're right technically there could be another one in there somewhere, maybe a Targaryen who never reigned as king.

I don't think Jaehaerys would even consider giving up incest. The worldbook sample on the Conquests confirmed that Dragonlords would practice incest to keep their blood pure. I think it's safe to assume they did this to keep the ability to ride their dragons. So Jaehaerys would really not want to abandon the practice of incest and risk having grandsons or great grandsons who could not ride dragons. Polygamy on the other hand had pretty much only cause succession problems.

There are a lot of Targs we just don't know much about. I don't think it would be unusual to find out other Targs practiced polygamy.

No, I don't think he would give up incest and the fact that he didn't just makes it unlikely that he'd negotiate an anti-polygamy stance when that hasn't been an issue for the old gods or the new. Polygamy hasn't caused any succession problems that we know of.

[RumHam]

There are a lot of Targs we just don't know much about. I don't think it would be unusual to find out other Targs practiced polygamy.

No, I don't think he would give up incest and the fact that he didn't just makes it unlikely that he'd negotiate an anti-polygamy stance when that hasn't been an issue for the old gods or the new.

I am assuming the Faith would be anti-polygamy. I might be wrong.

Polygamy hasn't caused any succession problems that we know of.

Well it's not totally clear why Maegor became king instead of Aenys' eldest son.

[Dr. Pepper]

I am assuming the Faith would be anti-polygamy. I might be wrong.

Well it's not totally clear why Maegor became king instead of Aenys' eldest son.

It may be something that's frowned upon simply because it's unusual, but there it's never stated that polygamy is abominable to the Faith.

Any succession issues with Maegor and Aenys seems to have been a private one. The real succession crises arose from multiple single marriages or extra-marrital relationships.

[RumHam]

It may be something that's frowned upon simply because it's unusual, but there it's never stated that polygamy is abominable to the Faith.

Any succession issues with Maegor and Aenys seems to have been a private one. The real succession crises arose from multiple single marriages or extra-marrital relationships.

I just realized I don't need to dance around that leaked worldbook sample, this was in the History of the Westerlands reading:

In the 40s AC Prince Aegon and his sister-wife Rhaena took refuge at Casterly Rock from King Maegor. Lord Lyman protected them and gave them guest right, but would not pledge his sword. Aegon perished at his uncle’s hand at the Battle Beneath the Gods’ Eye.

So there was succession related conflict between Aeny's children and Maegor.

http://www.historyofwesteros.com/concarolinas-westerlands-reading/

[Dr. Pepper]

I just realized I don't need to dance around that leaked worldbook sample, this was in the History of the Westerlands reading:

So there was succession related conflict between Aeny's children and Maegor.

http://www.historyofwesteros.com/concarolinas-westerlands-reading/

Cool, I haven't kept up to date with the Worldbook readings.

Yeah, you might be right that continuing non polygamous marriages may have been one of Jaehaerys negotiating points.

[Debra Morgan]

I will say a terrible thing, but R&L's marriage is excess for Martin, IMHO.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Well it's not totally clear why Maegor became king instead of Aenys' eldest son.

No we don't but it probably had something to do with the fact that Jaehaerys was only a teenager at the time and Maegor had the bigger... um... sword. I believe Maegor had been hand to the king under Aenys, so he had a lot of control over what was going on--he was a very powerful and cruel man--and people likely were scared of him. The kingdom was young, and when he asserted that he was entitled to the throne, there probably was not anyone to really challenge him--certainly not a 15 year old boy (young man?)--who later became known as Jaehaerys the Old King (knowing when to back down allows you to become old) and the Conciliator. But of course, Jaehaerys won out in the end, as Maegor died about 6 years later and as much as he tried, he failed to father any children (apparently killed some of his wives over this failure), and Jaehaerys became king after all. So while we don't know for sure, I think we can make a pretty good guess on how Maegor made himself king.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I will say a terrible thing, but R&L's marriage is excess for Martin, IMHO.

Why do you believe this? If Jon is The Prince that was Promised, then don't his parents have to be married? The prophesy is not for the Bastard that was Promised.

[The Dragon Demands]

You'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon.

[UnmaskedLurker]

You'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon.

Yes, getting married in Westeros is fairly easy under the Faith--and if a weirwood is near by and one of the parties is a believer in the old gods, even easier.

[WeaselPie]

lol

[RumHam]

No we don't but it probably had something to do with the fact that Jaehaerys was only a teenager at the time and Maegor had the bigger... um... sword. I believe Maegor had been hand to the king under Aenys, so he had a lot of control over what was going on--he was a very powerful and cruel man--and people likely were scared of him. The kingdom was young, and when he asserted that he was entitled to the throne, there probably was not anyone to really challenge him--certainly not a 15 year old boy (young man?)--who later became known as Jaehaerys the Old King (knowing when to back down allows you to become old) and the Conciliator. But of course, Jaehaerys won out in the end, as Maegor died about 6 years later and as much as he tried, he failed to father any children (apparently killed some of his wives over this failure), and Jaehaerys became king after all. So while we don't know for sure, I think we can make a pretty good guess on how Maegor made himself king.

There was someone to oppose him, Jaehaerys' older brother Aegon and his sister wife Rhaena (Who is mentioned in The Rogue Prince as a previous rider of Dreamfyre and Maegor's "black bride.") So he became king by killing the rightful heir and then ignoring his other nephews.

You'd be astonished at what a boy can make of a few lies, fifty pieces of silver, and a drunken septon.

It's probably worth noting that that boy wasn't already married.

[UnmaskedLurker]

There was someone to oppose him, Jaehaerys' older brother Aegon and his sister wife Rhaena (Who is mentioned in The Rogue Prince as a previous rider of Dreamfyre and Maegor's "black bride.") So he became king by killing the rightful heir and then ignoring his other nephews.

It's probably worth noting that that boy wasn't already married.

Every family tree I have seen has Jaehaerys with only two sisters--one he marries (Alysanne) and the other Maegor marries (Rhaena). Where is your information of an older bother Aegon?

It's probably worth noting that we have no information that polygamy was ever outlawed in Westeros.

[Dr. Pepper]

Every family tree I have seen has Jaehaerys with only two sisters--one he marries (Alysanne) and the other Maegor marries (Rhaena). Where is your information of an older bother Aegon?

It's probably worth noting that we have no information that polygamy was ever outlawed in Westeros.

There's a link upthread to a recent worldbook reading. This isn't published material and thus is subject to change, but as of right now, Jaehaerys had a brother and sister named Aegon and Rhaena, who were killed by Maegor.

[UnmaskedLurker]

There's a link upthread to a recent worldbook reading. This isn't published material and thus is subject to change, but as of right now, Jaehaerys had a brother and sister named Aegon and Rhaena, who were killed by Maegor.

Thanks--found it--looks like they are changing parts of the history that was leaked before and re-writing it for my intrigue.

[RumHam]

It's probably worth noting that we have no information that polygamy was ever outlawed in Westeros.

We know that it's generally not allowed in Westeros, whether there's an actual law or just a religious or cultural thing is unclear. The question is if the Targaryens agreed to stop doing it after Maegor

[Dead_Stark]

I buy the R +L =J stuff but I still think he is a bastard. Even if he isn't there is nobody to disprove it so he will be stuck with bastard status forever. I like it better that way anyway. The idea of him having some Aregon style crowning makes me sick. I think it would destroy everything that has made the series great.