The Journey or the Arrival?

[Johnny Snow]

Since the latest casting news it looks as though the show is taking a different path to the books, unless we get a few later additions to the cast at the moment theres no Quentyn or Arianne Martell also no more Greyjoy's added(yet?).

I suppose what I'm trying to ask is are you enjoying D & D's version of events or are you watching just to see where the story ends? I know dramatising something and staying loyal to the story isn't always possible due to budget constraints etc but I seem to find myself thinking that the TV show is rushing things a little and spoiling that journey for me.

Whats your thoughts?

[Arkash]

I enjoyed it a lot so far and think season 4 is their best !

Now, season 5 is another matter... it has the potential to be their best season and it has the potential to be the worst...

[alcasinoroyale]

Since the latest casting news it looks as though the show is taking a different path to the books, unless we get a few later additions to the cast at the moment theres no Quentyn or Arianne Martell also no more Greyjoy's added(yet?).

Do you remember the scene from Season 2: Episode 3 where Tyrion was talking to Pycelle about marrying Myrcella off to House Martell to form an alliance. Tyrion clearly says, "Princess Myrcella will wed their YOUNGEST SON when she comes of age" This clearly indicates that Trystane has to have older siblings or else D&D and HBO will have made a huge inconsistency.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I suppose what I'm trying to ask is are you enjoying D & D's version of events or are you watching just to see where the story ends? I know dramatising something and staying loyal to the story isn't always possible due to budget constraints etc but I seem to find myself thinking that the TV show is rushing things a little and spoiling that journey for me.

Whats your thoughts?

I am enjoying their version but yes, it seems rushed sometimes. I think ideally there would be 12-13 episodes that went a full hour but even that probably wouldn't be enough. There's just a lot of story and not a lot of time :frown5: But I am really enjoying their version. It's not perfect but neither are the books. I take each for what they bring to the party and just enjoy it. Clearly I like being in Westeros when you think of how much time I spend here :P

[alcasinoroyale]

I am enjoying their version but yes, it seems rushed sometimes. I think ideally there would be 12-13 episodes that went a full hour but even that probably wouldn't be enough. There's just a lot of story and not a lot of time :frown5: But I am really enjoying their version. It's not perfect but neither are the books. I take each for what they bring to the party and just enjoy it. Clearly I like being in Westeros when you think of how much time I spend here :P

Yeah I have to agree. I love both the TV show and the books, but it does seem like Season 4 was rushed as a lot of the episodes were a lot shorter than previous seasons. However, I think D&D have done a good job as it does seem like a difficult task to bring so many storylines together in one season. If they are planning for 7 seasons, there are certain things that have to be cut out that don't really add anything to the overall storyline. No writer is perfect and I will be interested to see how both versions finish the epic story. Now I think that in Season 4, we could have got more Stannis instead of adding the filler scenes (Sam & Gilly, Missandei & Grey Worm), but he will definitely get a lot more screen time in Season 5.

[Thendera]

There are a lot of things about the show that drive me crazy, but I really enjoy the moments when they get it right. Even little things, like having Jamie practice with Bron instead of Ser Illyn. When I read the books, I can't help but try to puzzle out how they're going to try to communicate the same ideas in a smaller format.

[Johnny Snow]

I enjoyed it a lot so far and think season 4 is their best !

Now, season 5 is another matter... it has the potential to be their best season and it has the potential to be the worst...

:agree:

[Johnny Snow]

Thanks for the replies.

I just think another 6/7 minutes an episode could've given them an hour of time over the series, a big oppourtuinity to keep the journey truer to the books.

[Dornish Vinegar]

Do you remember the scene from Season 2: Episode 3 where Tyrion was talking to Pycelle about marrying Myrcella off to House Martell to form an alliance. Tyrion clearly says, "Princess Myrcella will wed their YOUNGEST SON when she comes of age" This clearly indicates that Trystane has to have older siblings or else D&D and HBO will have made a huge inconsistency.

I'm reaaaaaaaaaally skeptical that D&D were thinking that far ahead when they included that little bit of dialog. They were still two seasons away from casting any Martells, so I doubt they were thinking about how many of Doran's children they were going to include. Until they actually did figure that out, they'd rely on the number of children from the books as a baseline. That's my reading at least.

As for the journey or the arrival, I'm mostly just watching for the actors at this point I'm sorry to say. I respect D&D's position as showrunners and all the decisions that position entails, but some of their choices I really disagree with.

[Tangbrand]

As for me I enjoy the series, but I think that the best was still season 1, and D&D won't be able to top that, period. As for seasons 2, 3 and 4 I enjoyed them to the same extent, although in season 4 there were far the most frustrating things as of yet, I think you can agree with me on a lot of them, like:
- Yara's attack on the Dreadfort and the way they made it

- Rorge showing up again for a completely pointless and pathetic death scene

- The Hound at the Bloody Gate telling everyone that he has Arya Stark, and nobody caring about it

- Bowen Marsh (Brian Fortune) becoming Othell Yarwick (it's really a minor thing but it annoyed me all the same)

- No LSH at the end of S4

- Pointless romance between Grey Worm and Missandei

- (I could also add the part when Jaime 'raped' her sister next to Joffrey's corpse, many of the book readers were upset by that one, but I personally just didn't care about it)

I also agree that the series are kinda rushing the story, and sacrificing too much from the books, and I'm really afraid that there will be even more dissapointing things in S5 (no Quentyn or Arianne, no journey on the Rhoyne, brutally mutilating the IB storyline), but I still hope for the best (even though there's not much chance at this point for introducing more major players into S5). I think I would be more satisfied if they would adapt the already written things to the fullest (the fullest possible for a 10 hour a season TV series), and then the story takes off in another direction, and finishes with a different ending then the books would have.

[FalseKnight]

As for me I enjoy the series, but I think that the best was still season 1, and D&D won't be able to top that, period. As for seasons 2, 3 and 4 I enjoyed them to the same extent, although in season 4 there were far the most frustrating things as of yet, I think you can agree with me on a lot of them, like:

- Yara's attack on the Dreadfort and the way they made it

- Rorge showing up again for a completely pointless and pathetic death scene

- The Hound at the Bloody Gate telling everyone that he has Arya Stark, and nobody caring about it

- Bowen Marsh (Brian Fortune) becoming Othell Yarwick (it's really a minor thing but it annoyed me all the same)

- No LSH at the end of S4

- Pointless romance between Grey Worm and Missandei

- (I could also add the part when Jaime 'raped' her sister next to Joffrey's corpse, many of the book readers were upset by that one, but I personally just didn't care about it)

I also agree that the series are kinda rushing the story, and sacrificing too much from the books, and I'm really afraid that there will be even more dissapointing things in S5 (no Quentyn or Arianne, no journey on the Rhoyne, brutally mutilating the IB storyline), but I still hope for the best (even though there's not much chance at this point for introducing more major players into S5). I think I would be more satisfied if they would adapt the already written things to the fullest (the fullest possible for a 10 hour a season TV series), and then the story takes off in another direction, and finishes with a different ending then the books would have.

As I've said before, D&D are not your bitches. They decide what to adapt and how to adapt it. They're not going to adapt pointless meandering travelogues. They may add things that seem meaningless to you. When they cut things that seem meaningful, try to remember that they know how the story ends for every character. From here on out, each cut confirms that the character or storyline amounts to nothing later on.

HBO paid for GRRM's ending, and they're not going to change it to satisfy readers.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

As I've said before, D&D are not your bitches. They decide what to adapt and how to adapt it. They're not going to adapt pointless meandering travelogues. They may add things that seem meaningless to you. When they cut things that seem meaningful, try to remember that they know how the story ends for every character. From here on out, each cut confirms that the character or storyline amounts to nothing later on.

HBO paid for GRRM's ending, and they're not going to change it to satisfy readers.

So wow, unlike D&D who just have a basic outline of the endgame, you must have some magical copy of the books. Otherwise, I'm not sure how anyone can assure anyone else that any missing character, story line, or scene means anything specific, one way or the other. How can you be so certain it's not just really more of nothing is nothing and meaningless beetle stomping and mule kicks?

[PatrickStormborn]

The journey and the arrival are equally important, but they have to be coherent. If the story is travelling in one direction but the arrival doesn't match that, there's obviously a problem. Unfortunately, the show has started to fall into this category with the most recent season.

If they're going to continue making changes to the "journey", then the "arrival" should reflect that.

[Lord Hanna]

I thought season 4 was the best one so far, i'm not a book purist who has a meltdown every time they didn't follow something 100%, since i know the show will be veryyy different.

I can be disappointed by some things, but overall i think the show is doing a great job at the journey. Ratings indicate that very much.

[FalseKnight]

So wow, unlike D&D who just have a basic outline of the endgame, you must have some magical copy of the books. Otherwise, I'm not sure how anyone can assure anyone else that any missing character, story line, or scene means anything specific, one way or the other. How can you be so certain it's not just really more of nothing is nothing and meaningless beetle stomping and mule kicks?

They have way more than a rough outline. They went to GRRM's home and discussed two and ADoS for a week. They books are big, sure, but a rough outline would only take a day or so for each book.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

They have way more than a rough outline. They went to GRRM's home and discussed two and ADoS for a week. They books are big, sure, but a rough outline would only take a day or so for each book.

I'm just not taking much that we will see going forward as gospel on what is and isn't important for the books. I think everyone should be a bit careful of that. For example, while I do suspect that Jojen will die in the books, I'm betting that both Pyp and Grenn won't. I think they were killed because in the showverse not many other characters were well known, so they became the show sacrifice. I could be wrong on that count, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of them live to the end of the books, not just one of them. For me, I'm not taking D&D;s future material to necessarily say much about what the book story will be. The end may mesh up for a few characters, a general ending, but the rest........I'm not so sure.

[FalseKnight]

I'm just not taking much that we will see going forward as gospel on what is and isn't important for the books. I think everyone should be a bit careful of that. For example, while I do suspect that Jojen will die in the books, I'm betting that both Pyp and Grenn won't. I think they were killed because in the showverse not many other characters were well known, so they became the show sacrifice. I could be wrong on that count, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of them live to the end of the books, not just one of them. For me, I'm not taking D&D;s future material to necessarily say much about what the book story will be. The end may mesh up for a few characters, a general ending, but the rest........I'm not so sure.

I agree that a character dying in the show does not necessarily mean the character dyes in the book. That was never my point. I said that when they cut elements, those elements don't amount to much later. Pyp and Grenn can live to be old men, but they won't be important to the story.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I agree that a character dying in the show does not necessarily mean the character dyes in the book. That was never my point. I said that when they cut elements, those elements don't amount to much later. Pyp and Grenn can live to be old men, but they won't be important to the story.

I do understand what you meant, I was using the idea of death vs life for some characters to show that perhaps we may be entering a time when more than the exact fate of characters may be different as well. I just don't see them being able to cover every angle of story that is already out and published, not to mention, what is still to come. I highly suspect that each medium may result in a vastly different story, journey and destination. Perhaps.......the only similarity will be, the outcome of war with The Others/White Walkers and the last ass to sit the IT, provided of course, there even is an IT. And, that leads me to wonder.........if it could be possible for GRRM to do away with the IT and the show, not. After all, they've named their show Game of Thrones, maybe they want to keep that throne, regardless of what type of ruling system GRRM sets up for the end? That could lead to both the journeys and the ends being different.

[JonSnowed]

I really don't understand why people feel the end game is going to change or even the fate of key characters. Now while the show will streamline it's cast, if someone dies I would suggest at the very least they do not have an important part to play moving forward in the books. Recent examples being Jojen (I fully expect his death to be confirmed in Winds) and Pip/Grenn (I doubt they will play a key role moving forward in the books).

What I do expect is some more minor characters from the books to be merged or not appear, some additional/truncated side stories in order to complete everything within seven seasons. So in other words if Arienne is out of the show she's not going to play as big a role as some may assume. If Aegon is out then his arc is going nowhere and not hugely relevant to the end game and likewise the Ironborn (although from my perspective these options would seriously suck).

[Blackfyre Gateau]

I was introduced to the books through the series. By the time episode 3 of season 1 aired I was just starting AGOT. By the time epsiode 4 aired I'd already finished it. The books were that good.

I think one has to accept that the series is never going to be a 100% faithful adaptation - season 1 in my view is the closest to its corresponding book in terms of the execution of the storytelling.

I'm definitely watching the series on its own merits - they have made some interesting detours - some of which enhance the story, others of which don't.

It's not a perfect adaptation, but it's better than 95%+ of other TV series in my opinion.