Why Stannis can never win the Iron Throne

[Fury Burns]

I understand that the books and the TV series are basically two different things at this point, from how much they've changed stuff and are continuing to change stuff. But, the end of the show and books should still be the same.

The way D&D are taking Stannis, and how they are making him, is making me doubt his likeliness to be king. I am almost 100% sure he'll never make it there, or just make it there and get kicked off immediately. My reasons for thinking this are due to the way D&D have made Stannis.

Stannis killed Lord Axell Florent, burned him, for not converting to R'hllor. If Stannis keeps up this attitude then he'll never be king. Let's assume Stannis wins, and is undisputed. He'll eventually, like in the series, demand all of the lords to convert to R'hllor. So, when they all tell him no, there will be another civil war, that Stannis will easily lose.

Stannis only ever burned traitors and prisoners, never innocence or his allies, like he does in the show. This makes Stannis a zealot, one that will burn you for disobeying him. Stannis can never make it to the throne, in the book or TV, because of that alone.

It upsets me that they make him so evil.

So, this tells me that he won't make it through The Winds of Winter, or maybe the other books, but definitely not to the Iron Throne. Sadly. :crying:

[The Bittersteel]

Yet the series is supposed to have a 'Bitterseet ending'? Don't get me wrong I think he's a goner too but don't let what D and D do second guess or influence what you think'll happen in the book series too much. They add/change/cutaway things all the time.

[Ser Pigeon Pie]

While I see the high possibility of Stannis not becoming King and not even making it through tWoW, I have to disagree with the fact that the books and the show will end similar. HBO has stated they're only looking at making 7 seasons so that means theres only roughly 30 hours left of the show, in which they still have to cover 2 already released books plus another 2-3 unreleased books (which more than likely will conclude after the show has finished). I understand that GRRM has already told D&D his proposed ending but I feel they've already began to use creative license to change up the story so it will end without too many unanswered questions.

So the way I see D&D taking the show it will either be Stannis or Tyrion on the throne by the end.

[the storm king returns]

Treason

[Fury Burns]

Treason

Lol, I love me some Stannis the Mannis, and he is my favorite character. He also has the most claim in my point of view, but I don't think he'll win, sadly.

Here's a Stannis meme to cheer you up.

http://cdn.meme.li/i/gxzsg.jpg

[14ccKemistk]

D&D are actively downplaying Stannis, IMO. They apparantly want to keep him in the background and Stephen is never present at any of th GoT events. They don't want to put more focus on him than to keep his arc alive. They have also made him less likable than in the books.

I think this is a move that has to do with television, characters have to be a little bit more polarized in order for viewers to take note of them. Once Stannis comes out as a Jon Snow ally in S5, his portrayal will very much likely turn more positive.

D&D actually kind of made the same thing with Jaime Lannister. From the start, he was just despicable from the beginning but as soon as his hand was chopped off, he became a likable guy. In the books, his arc wasn't all that black/white.

Also, the Stannis arc seems kind of pointless if he wasn't important to the end game of the series. I actually think he stands a far chance to win the throne, through stubborness and really hard work.

[hardhome]

Might I point out that the T.V. series may end differently from the books.

Also although Stannis is not my favorite candidate for the IT if there is one thing the story has taught us is that odds being overwhelmingly in or out of your favour does not guarantee victory/defeat.

[sj4iy]

While I see the high possibility of Stannis not becoming King and not even making it through tWoW, I have to disagree with the fact that the books and the show will end similar. HBO has stated they're only looking at making 7 seasons so that means theres only roughly 30 hours left of the show, in which they still have to cover 2 already released books plus another 2-3 unreleased books (which more than likely will conclude after the show has finished). I understand that GRRM has already told D&D his proposed ending but I feel they've already began to use creative license to change up the story so it will end without too many unanswered questions.

So the way I see D&D taking the show it will either be Stannis or Tyrion on the throne by the end.

I see no way that the show and the books don't end with the same person/people on the Iron Throne.

“Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with [Martin] and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be," Benioff says in the April issue of Vanity Fair. "If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.”

There's no ambiguity there. They are setting up for the same ending.

[Fury Burns]

D&D are actively downplaying Stannis, IMO. They apparantly want to keep him in the background and Stephen is never present at any of th GoT events. They don't want to put more focus on him than to keep his arc alive. They have also made him less likable than in the books.

I think this is a move that has to do with television, characters have to be a little bit more polarized in order for viewers to take note of them. Once Stannis comes out as a Jon Snow ally in S5, his portrayal will very much likely turn more positive.

D&D actually kind of made the same thing with Jaime Lannister. From the start, he was just despicable from the beginning but as soon as his hand was chopped off, he became a likable guy. In the books, his arc wasn't all that black/white.

Also, the Stannis arc seems kind of pointless if he wasn't important to the end game of the series. I actually think he stands a far chance to win the throne, through stubborness and really hard work.

I suppose you're right about that. That gives me more hope for him, even if only a little hope.

Stubborness and really hard work. That's the Mannis I know! :D

Might I point out that the T.V. series may end differently from the books.

Also although Stannis is not my favorite candidate for the IT if there is one thing the story has taught us is that odds being overwhelmingly in or out of your favour does not guarantee victory/defeat.

Yes, I suppose it has drastically changed, to the point they'll probably change the ending. For one, to make it their own story, and because it would give away the ending to his books. Like the butterfly effect, it started out spot on for the most part, with season 1, and then started spiraling out of control.

So it's possible they end differently, but with GRRM telling them the ending, I think they're going to go off of that. If they ended differently, it wouldn't even be the same thing anymore, not really.

[hardhome]

Fury Burns & sj4iy I can see it ending differently for many reasons.

HBO might see a huge drop in ratings and cancel it. (AFFC and ADWD are kind of slow paced)

D&D don't like/can't make the ending and choose one of their own.

GRRM thought of multiple endings and gave one that he intended not to use to D&D. (GRRM likes putting surprises into the stories, where would the surprises be if this happens)

[MasterJack]

I think he could get on the throne to prepare the kingdoms to the final battle. IMO he is the only one that could get the throne and be able to command every kingdoms to prepare for what is coming.

Aegon: Hi I was dead and you know my family isnt the ruling family anymore but plz I ask you all to follow me against that threat up North that I myself doesnt really know about....

Dany: Same thing as Aegon but I have Dragons and 50 titles, my dragons killed a prince of Dorne and my daddy tried/succeded to kill the Vales-Riverland-North-Stormland heirs/lords.

Euron: Hi, I am basicaly Robert Baratheon with Tywin's mind and Ramsay Snow Evilness.

Jon: Yo you dont really know me but my mother was banged by the Targ Prince so I am the Targ heir... I promise... Yes I know the Dead Baby Swap story was a lie but this time I promise this is the truth...What? the Targ arent very liked?..hmm you could say I am aslo the Stark heir.. you know with Robb's will so I should be a good guy right? Well if you forget that I "deserted" the Night Watch to press my claim to the IT...

[Fury Burns]

Fury Burns & sj4iy I can see it ending differently for many reasons.

HBO might see a huge drop in ratings and cancel it. (AFFC and ADWD are kind of slow paced)

D&D don't like/can't make the ending and choose one of their own.

GRRM thought of multiple endings and gave one that he intended not to use to D&D. (GRRM likes putting surprises into the stories, where would the surprises be if this happens)

The ratings have been going up and up, I doubt they'll drop, unless unsullied attention spans need explosions and dragons to catch their eye (they probably do) I think though, the new thing they're doing with Dorne, will keep the viewers interested enough to ignore the lack of fights.

Lol. It'd be hilarious if he pulled a Littlefinger/Varys and lied to them about the ending.

I think he could get on the throne to prepare the kingdoms to the final battle. IMO he is the only one that could get the throne and be able to command every kingdoms to prepare for what is coming.

Aegon: Hi I was dead and you know my family isnt the ruling family anymore but plz I ask you all to follow me against that threat up North that I myself doesnt really know about....

Dany: Same thing as Aegon but I have Dragons and 50 titles, my dragons killed a prince of Dorne and my daddy tried/succeded to kill the Vales-Riverland-North-Stormland heirs/lords.

Euron: Hi, I am basicaly Robert Baratheon with Tywin's mind and Ramsay Snow Evilness.

Jon: Yo you dont really know me but my mother was banged by the Targ Prince so I am the Targ heir... I promise... Yes I know the Dead Baby Swap story was a lie but this time I promise this is the truth...What? the Targ arent very liked?..hmm you could say I am aslo the Stark heir.. you know with Robb's will so I should be a good guy right? Well if you forget that I "deserted" the Night Watch to press my claim to the IT...

All of it made me laugh, because I agree with it all. There is only one reliable leader to save Westeros from the others, and that's Stannis. The people have had enough of the Targaryens, and that is three of the contenders to the throne, and nobody likes the Ironborn, so nobody would follow Euron.

Although, being a R'hllor worshipper will make the populace that aren't like him less, and be wary of following him. So, it's probably best that he ditch that and go back to the faith once he's king.

[JoeyBanana]

I disagree.

The red hawke is useful for now but once Stannis realizes he can't get the throne while having it as a pet, he'll get a new one again. I'm not even sure he understands how fanatic his followers really are and will likely lose some or most of them in the process while gaining many more when returning to the Seven. I guess someone like Davos could convince him to save the faith of the Red God (ironically) and tolerate it but that's about it.

Especially when it's revealed that he's not Lightbringer and Mel gets all hot for Jon.

[Fury Burns]

I disagree.

The red hawke is useful for now but once Stannis realizes he can't get the throne while having it as a pet, he'll get a new one again. I'm not even sure he understands how fanatic his followers really are and will likely lose some or most of them in the process while gaining many more when returning to the Seven. I guess someone like Davos could convince him to save the faith of the Red God (ironically) and tolerate it but that's about it.

Especially when it's revealed that he's not Lightbringer and Mel gets all hot for Jon.

Lightbringer is his sword. :laugh:

Just kidding, I know what you meant.

I think he knows how crazy they are for R'hllor though. Every few minutes they're asking him to sacrifice some Northmen to alleviate their starving and disease. Whichever god he chooses, it's going to upset somebody.

I can however seeing the faith militant that was restored, causing trouble, and making faith followers angry. Also, whoever turns out to be Azor Ahai, and the prince that was promised, it should make more followers out of the current faith followers in Westeros.

[sj4iy]

Fury Burns & sj4iy I can see it ending differently for many reasons.

HBO might see a huge drop in ratings and cancel it. (AFFC and ADWD are kind of slow paced)

Impossible. The show has been renewed for the next two seasons. The audience would have to drop 90% for the show to be cancelled before the 7th and final season. With the show outpacing the books and going into uncharted territory, there's absolutely no reason to think that will happen. The show will finish.

D&D don't like/can't make the ending and choose one of their own.

That directly contradicts the quote I just provided above where they said they were working towards Martin's ending. Details may differ, but the big points will be the same.

GRRM thought of multiple endings and gave one that he intended not to use to D&D. (GRRM likes putting surprises into the stories, where would the surprises be if this happens)

There's absolutely no indication that he has the ability to do that. HBO bought the rights to the future books...if he pulled a switcharoo on them, they would likely be able sue him because there is no chance that HBO didn't address this in their negotiations for the unwritten books. Also, D&D and Martin have all stated that Martin has told them the ending and has helped them plot out the various storylines to get to that ending.

[sj4iy]

Lightbringer is his sword. :laugh:

Just kidding, I know what you meant.

I think he knows how crazy they are for R'hllor though. Every few minutes they're asking him to sacrifice some Northmen to alleviate their starving and disease. Whichever god he chooses, it's going to upset somebody.

I can however seeing the faith militant that was restored, causing trouble, and making faith followers angry. Also, whoever turns out to be Azor Ahai, and the prince that was promised, it should make more followers out of the current faith followers in Westeros.

And what if Azor Ahai/The Prince Who Was Promised turns out to be a follower of the Old Gods? What will Westeros make of that?

[BastardlyRock]

I try not to get too into these but... I will say that regardless of how they get there, I do think that both the show and the books will end with the same major turnouts (same person sitting the IT, same major characters dead, etc.) ... and that's about the nicest thing I can say, so with that I'll bow out :D

[titanx5]

I understand that the books and the TV series are basically two different things at this point, from how much they've changed stuff and are continuing to change stuff. But, the end of the show and books should still be the same.

The way D&D are taking Stannis, and how they are making him, is making me doubt his likeliness to be king. I am almost 100% sure he'll never make it there, or just make it there and get kicked off immediately. My reasons for thinking this are due to the way D&D have made Stannis.

Stannis killed Lord Axell Florent, burned him, for not converting to R'hllor. If Stannis keeps up this attitude then he'll never be king. Let's assume Stannis wins, and is undisputed. He'll eventually, like in the series, demand all of the lords to convert to R'hllor. So, when they all tell him no, there will be another civil war, that Stannis will easily lose.

Stannis only ever burned traitors and prisoners, never innocence or his allies, like he does in the show. This makes Stannis a zealot, one that will burn you for disobeying him. Stannis can never make it to the throne, in the book or TV, because of that alone.

It upsets me that they make him so evil.

So, this tells me that he won't make it through The Winds of Winter, or maybe the other books, but definitely not to the Iron Throne. Sadly. :crying:

I dont think you should be basing how D&D portray Stannis to how things will end for him in the end. Remember SOS was meant to be Stannis at his lowest, and many people only started to like Stannis after he went to the wall (I liked him for the start, but thats me). Plus D&D have said there will be more Stannis in s5, so we will probably get as much Stannis as s2 or a little more. And Stephen Dillane does not like going to events such as Comic Con and other such events, that has nothing to do with D&D, trust me if Stephen wanted to go to ComicCon D&D would want him to be there. People may disagree with him, but I feel he is becoming a better king and see him making it to the end. I dont see Dany winning in the end as it seems way to obvious, but thats off the topic. I'm optimistic we will see a closer to the books Stannis in s5

[The Bastard of Walton]

If Stannis doesn't win the Throne we riot!

Really though, I agree the show has played him wrong. That being said, two completely different entities. It still annoys me, but just got to treat it that way.

Until I read it I'm still going to believe that Stannis will win the Throne

[DamoDega]

Stannis "Almost There" Baratheon

That's why

He's a living concept, at some point plot-shield characters will just surpass him, no way he win over Jon Snow / Daenerys

Even just Gendry existence is foreshadow

Stannis have that inferior complex toward Robert

At some point Gendry will put dat Bull Helm and go on on battle with that daddy hammer (GRRM chose to raise Gendry as blacksmith is not random imho) that nobody else seem able to use, and become Robert 2.0

He will not be the true Robert successor, he will not be king of the IT, he will probably not even survive to the end

I like Stannis in both books and TV show, but still can't see him win