Why Stannis can never win the Iron Throne

[UnmaskedLurker]

The ending might still be satisfying even if it's not the same ending as the books. Also, when they said they're writing the same story it was during past seasons. It just can't be the same story anymore. Feast/ Dance are incredible books but not TV friendly. George has said he will make even bigger battles and more crazy dragon action in the last two books, and the TV-show can't afford it, since they have barely had enough money to make the battle scenes thus far (George even said he's writing stuff that can't be made on a TV budget). They just have to diverge, and diverge greatly. And with great diversions come completely different conclusions.

I know after I hit post that I should have been more clear. What I meant is that when D&D were asked about the ending that GRRM communicated to D&D, they confirmed that they found the ending "satisfying." So the satisfying comment was about the ending GRRM described to them, not a discussion directly about the HBO ending. But the implication seemed absolutely clear that D&D intended to use the same "satisfying" ending, which is why GRRM told them the ending in the first place--so they could finish the story even if GRRM was not finished with the books yet. D&D likely will not have the books available as source material, so the deviations may be even greater. But who live or dies, who marries whom in the end, who gets what title, how the Battle for the Dawn is won, etc.--these type of issues will not be different.

[George48]

I don't know how to explain it but when I think about Stannis on the Iron Throne while the Others invade or even after... it just feels right.

Imagine you're reading a book about the Roman Empire in the III-rd century or about the Eastern
Roman Empire during the VII-IX century or any country during or after a time of crisis (France after Argincourt, or before Valmy, Russia during the Civil War...) . Now think of Stannis.

It just feels like the kind of character that would end up on top of things and clean all the mess. It's just a feeling though.

Anyway, we shoudn't search for clues in the show.

Regarding Stannis: he actually has a chance to end up the IT. It's a far shot but we might see him end as Stannis I but it all depends on how the Battle for Winterfell ends.

[RainGhost]

I wouldn't read too much into the show, they've changed a lot (and I haven't even seen series 4). Stannis is one of those characters that I neither like nor dislike but I dislike show Stannis - he has no regrets over dodgy decisions, like Renly's murder, which was all Melisandre in the books. It's book Stannis who counts and book Stannis has developed as a character. He's still got a long way to go though before he sits the IT but I wouldn't take the show's portrayal of him as evidence that he won't manage it.

[sj4iy]

I don't see Stannis ever sitting the Iron Throne. No offense to anyone, I just don't think his chances are very high. I see him dying in battle at some point.

[JonisHenryTudor]

While I see the high possibility of Stannis not becoming King and not even making it through tWoW, I have to disagree with the fact that the books and the show will end similar. HBO has stated they're only looking at making 7 seasons so that means theres only roughly 30 hours left of the show, in which they still have to cover 2 already released books plus another 2-3 unreleased books (which more than likely will conclude after the show has finished). I understand that GRRM has already told D&D his proposed ending but I feel they've already began to use creative license to change up the story so it will end without too many unanswered questions.

So the way I see D&D taking the show it will either be Stannis or Tyrion on the throne by the end.

Or connect point A to point R, which means they are not changing much but cutting out B-Q. I think they read the story backwards...sort of. They are connecting the first parts to the end parts and changing things in the middle so by the end they have a single cohesive story, which also suggests that they are giving away things that have not yet come to pass.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Or connect point A to point R, which means they are not changing much but cutting out B-Q. I think they read the story backwards...sort of. They are connecting the first parts to the end parts and changing things in the middle so by the end they have a single cohesive story, which also suggests that they are giving away things that have not yet come to pass.

Very good way to put the point I was trying to make above in this thread. D&D know the ending and have absolutely no reason to change the basic outcome. But they have much less "room" to get there because they are limited to 7 seasons and 10 episodes a season. So many details have to be changed. But the point is to get from A to Z (or R if you prefer) some way or other. Why would they change the ending? They have absolutely no reason to do so.

[14ccKemistk]

D&D hasn't known the ending until quite recently, right?

If they, as I assume, didn't know it before starting writing S5 episodes then maybe S5 actually might give us a few hints on the fate of Stannis.

I will start to look for sudden redeeming qualities and plot armor hints that may be assigned to the Mannis.

And to all of you that think Stannis will die fighting in TWOW - I think you might be seriously fooled by GRRM. Just because he is struggling (even getting a possible death in the Pink letter), that does definitively NOT mean a death sentence in ASOIAF. Rather the opposite, if anything.

[HosteenOsteen]

Actually, I think the last episode of s4, when ere Jon says "I know you're the king, my father died for you," something he never says in the books, sets up Stannis pretty well. I think Stannis has a reasonable (3 percent- chance of making it through.

[sj4iy]

Actually, I think the last episode of s4, when ere Jon says "I know you're the king, my father died for you," something he never says in the books, sets up Stannis pretty well. I think Stannis has a reasonable (3 percent- chance of making it through.

Well, tbf, he tells Tormund that he doesn't have a king shortly after that. When Tormund tells him that he can never be a kneeler again, I took that as a big hint for the future story.

[titanx5]

D&D hasn't known the ending until quite recently, right?

If they, as I assume, didn't know it before starting writing S5 episodes then maybe S5 actually might give us a few hints on the fate of Stannis.

I will start to look for sudden redeeming qualities and plot armor hints that may be assigned to the Mannis.

And to all of you that think Stannis will die fighting in TWOW - I think you might be seriously fooled by GRRM. Just because he is struggling (even getting a possible death in the Pink letter), that does definitively NOT mean a death sentence in ASOIAF. Rather the opposite, if anything.

Completely Agree! People are expecting an absolute bloodbath in WOW, we so many characters will die. However I think they will be disappointed, and plus I believe Stannis will make it at least to DOS. Also I'm optimistic we will get a more positive/better Stannis in s5, from D&D fr their comments in ComicCon

[Game Of Thrones]

Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne.

[BastardlyRock]

I wish I could be optimistic about Stannis's chances, I just can't. :( I'll have to do some digging but I remember reading early on (like season 2) that D&D simply didn't like Stannis as a character, that he was their least favorite, and unfortunately I think that's dictated a lot of what we've seen of him on the show.

[TheMysteriousOne]

Stannis is not getting the throne.

And for the record, (before I get yelled at for bias), I think that Dany won't either, at most, she will get it for a short period of time before heading North.

[sj4iy]

Stannis is not getting the throne.

And for the record, (before I get yelled at for bias), I think that Dany won't either, at most, she will get it for a short period of time before heading North.

I agree on both counts.

[Fury Burns]

Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne. Stannis must win the Iron Throne.

Stannis the Mannis!

I wish I could be optimistic about Stannis's chances, I just can't. :( I'll have to do some digging but I remember reading early on (like season 2) that D&D simply didn't like Stannis as a character, that he was their least favorite, and unfortunately I think that's dictated a lot of what we've seen of him on the show.

I felt like he was their least favorite as well, which is still dumb for them to make his character nearly evil, just for not liking him. They did say at the comic con panel, when somebody asked about "Stannis the Mannis" that they would be "taking advantage of Stephen and the character" which makes me think he'll have more scenes in the upcoming season, or that they'll make him a more gray character, instead of an evil one. I'm hoping at least.

Stannis is not getting the throne.

And for the record, (before I get yelled at for bias), I think that Dany won't either, at most, she will get it for a short period of time before heading North.

"What the fuck did you just fucking say about Stannis, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker.

As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit.

If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo."

(This isn't directed toward you, I saw it on another forum, where someone insulted Stannis. So I'm just joking, :lol: ) Some Stannis the Mannis Fannisses are really crazy about him. lol. I found it funny.

[BastardlyRock]

Stannis is not getting the throne.

And for the record, (before I get yelled at for bias), I think that Dany won't either, at most, she will get it for a short period of time before heading North.

:agree: If there even is a throne in the end (which I sincerely hope there is not) my vote would go to Shireen anyway. I hope Dany finds some peace that's more at terms with her childhood memories of, and true notion of "home".

[Marcus Agrippa]

I understand that the books and the TV series are basically two different things at this point, from how much they've changed stuff and are continuing to change stuff. But, the end of the show and books should still be the same.

The way D&D are taking Stannis, and how they are making him, is making me doubt his likeliness to be king. I am almost 100% sure he'll never make it there, or just make it there and get kicked off immediately. My reasons for thinking this are due to the way D&D have made Stannis.

Stannis killed Lord Axell Florent, burned him, for not converting to R'hllor. If Stannis keeps up this attitude then he'll never be king. Let's assume Stannis wins, and is undisputed. He'll eventually, like in the series, demand all of the lords to convert to R'hllor. So, when they all tell him no, there will be another civil war, that Stannis will easily lose.

Stannis only ever burned traitors and prisoners, never innocence or his allies, like he does in the show. This makes Stannis a zealot, one that will burn you for disobeying him. Stannis can never make it to the throne, in the book or TV, because of that alone.

It upsets me that they make him so evil.

So, this tells me that he won't make it through The Winds of Winter, or maybe the other books, but definitely not to the Iron Throne. Sadly. :crying:

Everything Mel sees comes true--- in one form or another. She saw Stannis sitting on the throne. I am not sure how he gets there but its going to be an interesting play. SOme people believe he will ride Manderlys fleet to KL... but how would that even happen with Aegon and Daenerys in the South? It would be dumb going back to that city and stannis already had a brain dead second in CoK. It doesn't fit his character to have another.

[The Imperator]

Stannis has survived for so long even as an underdog. I could definitely see him surviving for a long time, maybe up until Book 7.

[sj4iy]

Everything Mel sees comes true--- in one form or another. She saw Stannis sitting on the throne. I am not sure how he gets there but its going to be an interesting play. SOme people believe he will ride Manderlys fleet to KL... but how would that even happen with Aegon and Daenerys in the South? It would be dumb going back to that city and stannis already had a brain dead second in CoK. It doesn't fit his character to have another.

We don't know what she saw, exactly. She interprets things as she thinks they should be and not as they necessarily are.

[Marcus Agrippa]

We don't know what she saw, exactly. She interprets things as she thinks they should be and not as they necessarily are.

That is true. I don't how she would mess it up. It's not like the "Arya" vision... Has she even been to KL? She probably doesn't even know what the Iron Throne looks like. Well darn.