smashedhalo Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Would it be possible to leave the nights watch without ramifications i.e. death sentence?The NW has basically devolved from a honorable life choice, see shield hall(many highborn knights joining), to a prison colony. While some still see it as a way to gain or regain honor. Theon, before becoming Reek, was about to give up and join the NW to "one day comand a ship". Donal Noyn joined after he lost his arm. Most of the northern lords still treat it as a honorable life choice. Even Jon re-instates archery practice because 1in10 were knights now its more 1in100.It's mentioned in the books, a kings pardon could do it. Granted Cercie said it and probably bullshit but desertion would be the crime and a kings word is law.Rob stated he would give a 100 men for one man, granted it was Jon and he needed a heir, but as King in the North his words are law too.Basically, with what can be gleaned from the books, how can one leave the Watch and stay in the realm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Burns Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Death. If someone was to die... and then come back ;) then they could technically leave the Nights Watch. A king's pardon should work. And also, should the Night's Watch, or the Wall fall, then there would be no need to guard it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 As far as the book, King decree/force and death+resurrection are the most likely suggested possibilities for Jon as Jon. There are at least two ways in which someone has already left the watch in the books, however. One is Mance, through desertion and then misdirection living on under disguise... another is the singer who went with Sam across the sea, out of reach and knowledge of the ill-equipped NW (but not one girl assassin).However GRRM wants to present it is the broader answer. Plenty of ways are possible, just depends on how well he presents it. The thing about books (all of them), imo, is that almost anything is possible if presented well enough.King's pardon/demand, substitution, mutual agreement of individual and NW leaders that it's best for wall, events that carry one away in service of NW and gradually lead to another role in kingdom and everyone just accepts what came about naturally, guy is persecuted by NW and runs away until eventually an agreement is reached that they leave him alone of he stays away... plenty of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHouseHB Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If there is a Dance between Dany and Aegon and Jon finds out about his parents (R+L = J) and somehow him staking a claim to the throne somehow prevents massive casualties in the second Dance. Or in the second Battle for Dawn the realm needs a healer as its next king Jon decides it would be best for him due to him having a claim to the throne via (R+L = J). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 At the moment it's looking like the Watch disbanding is the only exit that doesn't (necessarily) involve death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Great council. As when Aemon was offered the crown, even though he was a Maester Same could happen for Jon if R+l=J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Burns Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Great council. As when Aemon was offered the crown, even though he was a Maester Same could happen for Jon if R+l=J So that, if he still was Lord Commander, would make him the Night's King I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Daddy Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Also, Bloodraven got out of the Watch, though details of his exit have never been given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 So that, if he still was Lord Commander, would make him the Night's King I suppose. no i mean, a Great Council gathers to pick the new King, after the devastation of the dance of dragons 2.0, and given jon´s deeds during the war for dawn 2.0, he gets offered the iron throne, even though he is still Nw. they free him from his vows i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If there is a Dance between Dany and Aegon and Jon finds out about his parents (R+L = J) and somehow him staking a claim to the throne somehow prevents massive casualties in the second Dance. Or in the second Battle for Dawn the realm needs a healer as its next king Jon decides it would be best for him due to him having a claim to the throne via (R+L = J). I find Jon actively staking his own claim to be pretty damn unrealistic. He either gets out of it through resurrection (which I think is a cop-out but it's foolish to discount it), the Watch disbands, or he dies and stays dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I see none, a man of the Faith can speak to HS, but the Old Gods have no religious head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Burns Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 no i mean, a Great Council gathers to pick the new King, after the devastation of the dance of dragons 2.0, and given jon´s deeds during the war for dawn 2.0, he gets offered the iron throne, even though he is still Nw. they free him from his vows i guess. I agree the only way he's getting the throne, is through that, because I really can't see a whole other war where he marches south to conquer stuff, it would take too long. Dragons are going to be the end to the war. I find Jon actively staking his own claim to be pretty damn unrealistic. He either gets out of it through resurrection (which I think is a cop-out but it's foolish to discount it), the Watch disbands, or he dies and stays dead. Especially after he turned down the offer of legitimization and removal from the Watch that Stannis gave him. If he wouldn't want to be the Lord Paramount of the North, then I don't see him wanting to become king. Unless of course, the only reason he didn't take his offer was because Stannis would have burned the Godswood in Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Especially after he turned down the offer of legitimization and removal from the Watch that Stannis gave him. If he wouldn't want to be the Lord Paramount of the North, then I don't see him wanting to become king. Unless of course, the only reason he didn't take his offer was because Stannis would have burned the Godswood in Winterfell. I don't think him turning down Stannis's offer counts for squat with regard to his attitude toward what Robb may or may not have written in his will. Totally different circumstances. What I'm saying is that Jon is not going to go after the Iron Throne just because he finds out he's a Targryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Burns Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't think him turning down Stannis's offer counts for squat with regard to his attitude toward what Robb may or may not have written in his will. Totally different circumstances. What I'm saying is that Jon is not going to go after the Iron Throne just because he finds out he's a Targryen. If I found out my parents weren't who people told me they were, and they are actually two people that died a long time ago, I'd be like. "Oh... so?" But if I found out my parents, or one of them, was still alive. "Cool, where are they, this is awesome." And if I found out it was someone I knew all along, and had conversed with before. "HOLY SHIT!" Yeah, it wouldn't really matter much to Jon, because he'd just be heir to another kingdom, if he ever finds out Robb wanted him to be his heir. I can still imagine he'd be shocked, shocked that he's actually part Targaryen, but other than that, it won't be of much concern to him. That is the only way Jon could be king though, even though I'd find it hard for people to believe him, or Bran (if he tells everyone he saw it in a vision/dream) Or from a short old man (Howland Reed, who not a lot of people have seen, or care about) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashedhalo Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I see none, a man of the Faith can speak to HS, but the Old Gods have no religious head. However the CoTF and by extension Bran, can speak for the old gods. And if Bran comes back he can tap into thousands of years of information and history as most major houses have a gods wood, and the weir-net extends to the Citadel too.Ultimately though a council of faith, maesters, and ruling class seems to have a final say.Alternately if being able to leave the Watch has conditions, would a regular joe i.e anyone sent for a crime, be able to leave. Have it be a term of service. Like for example if some of the fallout from the War of 5 Kings,Robert's/Greyjoy/Blackfire rebellion, and the final war for the Iron Throne makes it so no house can have "standing" armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Also, Bloodraven got out of the Watch, though details of his exit have never been given. It seems he was assumed lost/dead on a ranging. In reality I think he'd claim he's been serving all along, at Weirwood Keep beyond the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Fiera Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't see why he would want to leave, I mean it was his choice in the first place to go to the Wall and he could have stayed with Ygritte or gone off to join Robb or whatever. I don't see him being interested in the Iron Throne, even if he does find out he has a legitimate claim. I know he had decided to run off and join Arya, but I don't think that his him abandoning his responsibilities completely, yes he is technically breaking his vow but smashing the Bolton/Frey host and reuniting the North seems essential to defeat the white walkers. I don't see them being stopped if there is still open warfare across the whole North (Loads of dead scattered across the North just asking to be wightified is not good). Though if Jon absolutely has to leave the watch I'd guess being dead is as good a reason as any, his watch has ended so to speak and he is rising again as Azor Ahai or the prince that was promised or whatever, so I suppose legally he could leave the watch, but I don't think he would seeing as the role of tPtWP and the Lord Commander is basically the same: to defeat the Great Other. I have a little theory George is trolling everyone and when Melisandre resurrects Jon the wildlings lose their shit thinking she can make Wights and throw them both off the wall :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashkhen Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Could there be an out if you leave before taking the oath? What if you fake taking the oath, or say it incorrectly? A flimsy reason, probably won't happen in the series, but is saying the oath what binds you to Night's Watch rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Fiera Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Could there be an out if you leave before taking the oath? What if you fake taking the oath, or say it incorrectly? A flimsy reason, probably won't happen in the series, but is saying the oath what binds you to Night's Watch rules? I think you can leave before you take the oath if you are in Jon's position of joining the watch by choice, he would not have been beheaded if he flounced off after finding out he was a Steward. I don't think people sent to the wall as punishment get that opportunity however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 No. Not a single way. Of course a King may choose not to assist the NW in hunting down a deserter in his kingdom. Could there be an out if you leave before taking the oath? What if you fake taking the oath, or say it incorrectly? A flimsy reason, probably won't happen in the series, but is saying the oath what binds you to Night's Watch rules?Yes. Before you take the oath, you can leave whenever you want. Of course that isn't much use to the guys whose pardons rest on taking the oath. They'll be executed for their initial crime if they leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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