TheonGreyjoy Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Why would Blackfish escape Riverun just to die in an attempt to free Edmure?It would make little sense. More likely the pov is some minor character, with bigger characters present as well.Btw great first post TheKing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the conquering bastard 25 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Why does everyone assume that it has to be a surprise attack. Didn't Robb leave a garrison of Northerns at the Crag? Also, what happened to those two castles that Robb took in the West did he surrender them back to the Lannister's before the RW or are they still in Northern Hands. Don't forget that the BWB is split, possibly working at cross agendas or seemingly cross purposes. Along with there are other reminates of Robb's foot floating around the Trident regions, along with there were alot of Trident bannerman missing from the siege of Riverrun. Mallister is pinned up in Seaguard, and Bracken and Blackwood were having their own feigned siege. To keep the Lannister forces in the Trident as they set up their positions. They are using the small folk via the brotherhood and whores as a human raven information system. Notice the queen of whores was with Frey when he was hung not a days ride from the Twins. Then again Bracken is fucking another whore when Jamie comes upon him she even takes the time to introduce herself, while the Queen of whores also makes sure to introduce herself to Jamie. Hint Hint almost like the author is telling use that all whore are working for her. Also, by the BWB feigning appearances here and there, melting into the neck, the making a ring of watchers around the siege lines of Riverrun. The news at Darry of reports of seeing different parties of bandits, Wheelhouse Ami telling Jamie about her husband and his death, having the captain of the gold cloaks but also, an heir to Crankhal pledging to come back to Darry to hunt down the bandits. The attack on Saltpan was so savage that the crown has no choice but to hunt down the hound and bring his head to the Capital. What better way then to keep the Lannisters and it's western forces spinning its tail, while they slip in the West and cut them off from returning. Lady Stoneheart is making the Trident unstable for the West, and forcing their hand to stay and deal with the threats. While the Trident lords, with the Help of Dayne's part of the brotherhood, is gathering the sweepings of the Tridents, rousting the remaining parts of the north that still is scattered across the trident. That's why the Blackfish set up the siege of Riverrun. To bring the all of the Western's remain forces and allies to one place. Freys cut off from help by the Tumblestone, while the Western forces/Trident allies sit in the middle of the rivers while on the other side sat Jamie's arms and whatever other western forces. All the Blackfish was doing was holding, typical of his personality, being stubborn and defiant. Yet he told Jamie to his face that he was going to continue his nephew's war and the direwolf of house stark was still seen at Riverrun and at the Blackwood siege! Yet who are they fighting for? Sansa's a lannister and married to the Imp disappeared and attained for the murder of the king! That's high treason and regicide boys and girls. Bran and Rickon/Arya are all believed to be dead, so who's left? Jon Snow that's who and how happens to know about a certain will? Edmure Tully, and Mallister. Simple matter of sending a raven(human or winged) before the Freys set up the siege. Mallister only bent the knee because he wanted his heir back and didn't want to see him hanged. That doesn't stop him for still once they left(frey) for them to coordinate with the various lords of the Trident and those that survived the Red Wedding/escaped to work with the Brotherhood (they also know ways that honest men like lords don't know poacher roads and such.) Who didn't die at Duskendale, Maidenpoole, the Battle of Green forks. The siege was a stall tactic. Drawing the eye of the crown and it's armies to the Trident, so that they can pick them off but also so they could gather their forces and train those that needed(the dregs of the Trident). Edmure Tully is headed to Casterly Rock. Why on gods green earth would you try and free him. That's the best and perfect place for him. He has to pass by the Crag or they are going to have to split their forces as the Golden Tooth as the Crag sits on the Tumblestone. If I was the trident and I was going for the element of suprise I would never attack when I know they are going to be on guard for it. I would wait let them get to the West and then close the Golden Tooth gainst them and from help being reaching them from the Trident. Lady Stoneheart can retake the Tully castle. There are still those that are loyal to the Tullys in the castle, cooks, servants, stable boys and such those the Lannisters wouldn't think about when thinking about someone turning against them. The singer in inside of the castle as well. All they have to get one gate open and it's game over. Hell you could use to the small folk to attack the castle. They love Edmure he let them inside of the Castle when there was war in Riverlands. While Lady Stone heart can save her fighters for the Twins. Which as we have seen can be something of a mess when guest are coming and going. The perfect way inside of the castle is the same ploy that the Hound and Arya were going to use. Simple sack the castle from the inside and free the Northern lords that are there. Lord Bracken is going to have go somewhere with winter on. Why not leave him in charge of the Twins and gets him out of the Blackwood's faces for awhile while they are holding. That's all this really is it's a holding pattern. While word gets to jon, the lady searches for Arya and the mad mouse looks for Sansa. They are resetting the deck. Now how do you sack the West? From the Crag/forces and other castles under Northern control send them to the Golden Tooth, that place that Robb wanted to use to get Tywin Lannister. Well Set your men there, Send a call to arms to the Golden Tooth that the Rock or Lannisport is under attack(ironborn, they are attacking everywhere else and Isle is right there it wouldn't be out of Euron's nature) Get the Golden tooth to muster and take out the force right there and then. Then from the Golden Tooth send a message to the Rock about the Trident Lords holding a siege or attack. When the Rock rides out ride hard for Lannisport. There is the West in three moves. Then it's like I said a matter of holding. Once all of the major lannister forces are taken care of go castle to castle and take them out. Leave those castles that lie to the South like Silverhill and Crakehall. All those that are close to the Golden Tooth, and send the Lannister fleet or ship in port to take Fair Castle and Kayce. That's how you take the West. Remember last and for most it's on it's last legs in terms of forces and most of it's forces are far from home thanks to the brotherhood and bandits in the woods. So if the POV going to be containing Jeyne I would love to see her watch as her daughter played to game better than she could ever hope to. With her mother and father, and uncle removed she's now lady of the Crag with her brother as lord of Castamere. Nice position to be able to muster a war chest for the North and her dead late husband. Maybe even enough to hire sail swords or sellswords. Lovely thought now isn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Why Blackfish had anything to do with Jeyne would be if he took her with her when he escaped from Riverrun and the "JW" presented to the bannisters was the younger daughter....thus explaining the discrepancy re: hips that has been so often noted. Also one might look at it the other way and say, if JW is important to the rest of the narrative, she can't just be a Lannister captive, but out there with the Blackfish...Didn't George state that Jeyne's changed hips was a mistake in an SSM? Although, you'd think that he would fix it in another publication of A Feast for Crows. Correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The death of Talisa in the tv series seems a bit too much "ok, she is dead, see it" sort of like lady Barbry "the dady doth protest much". It was too in our face. Get it out of your minds people. However, Jeyne, Queen Jeyne is the only known Stark (through marriage) alive and potentially, although, her mother denies it, is pregnant with the king or queen of the North should they be born and survive. Also, if any thing happens Roslin and her baby by Edmure, the true heir to Riverrun and the Riverlands. So, Jeyne, unless she is proven not pregnant or dead is VERY signifigant in the Novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 However, Jeyne, Queen Jeyne is the only known Stark (through marriage) alive and potentially, although, her mother denies it, is pregnant with the king or queen of the North should they be born and survive. By the time Jaime sees Jeyne it's been several months since the Red Wedding. If she was pregnant, it would have been rather obvious. Why does everyone assume that it has to be a surprise attack. Didn't Robb leave a garrison of Northerns at the Crag? Also, what happened to those two castles that Robb took in the West did he surrender them back to the Lannister's before the RW or are they still in Northern Hands. Er, no. He did not leave a garrison behind, nor did he hold the castles he stormed. He sacked them, and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There are people who don't want to know anything about Winds before it comes out, that's why we have a separate forum for talking about stuff like this. You may want to edit the title so it doesn't contain the minor spoiler. Edit: now that the thread is moved there's no need to edit the title. Didn't George state that Jeyne's changed hips was a mistake in an SSM? Although, you'd think that he would fix it in another publication of A Feast for Crows. Correct me if I'm wrong. It was a mistake, and it has been corrected in newer editions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Locust Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 There are people who don't want to know anything about Winds before it comes out, that's why we have a separate forum for talking about stuff like this. You may want to edit the title so it doesn't contain the minor spoiler. It was a mistake, and it has been corrected in newer editions. Great! Thanks for the verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the conquering bastard 25 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 By the time Jaime sees Jeyne it's been several months since the Red Wedding. If she was pregnant, it would have been rather obvious. Er, no. He did not leave a garrison behind, nor did he hold the castles he stormed. He sacked them, and left. I wasn't sure about that part but every thing else does have a possibility. It's not out of the spear of possibility. I mean Martian did set up the washer woman scenerio in the north with mance and pointed out how men wouldn't think of a woman of killing or such so why not use the whores in the same manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Hand of the King Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Well, atleast we have the region of where the prologue comes from, Between Riverrun and the Crag. I bet the Blackfish is involved. Also, is not Edmure being moved along the same rout to Casterly Rock?, might we see Nymeria and her pack? It ought to be good. I need me some Nymeria! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 As of AFC, she's headed to the Crag, and Jaime's afraid that she might try to escape or be captured on the way. I think you are confusing the Crag with Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HosteenOsteen Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 If Jeyne is a) not pregnant and b) survives the prologue, what rile do people think she will play then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pounce FTW Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Why Blackfish had anything to do with Jeyne would be if he took her with her when he escaped from Riverrun and the "JW" presented to the bannisters was the younger daughter....thus explaining the discrepancy re: hips that has been so often noted. Also one might look at it the other way and say, if JW is important to the rest of the narrative, she can't just be a Lannister captive, but out there with the Blackfish... Jeyne is also someone another claimant might eventually marry, to slightly firm up his claim to the throne even though it might not have directly dynastic implications...I guess Aegon VI especially.... It wasn't another Jeyne as RumHam explained so she is not with the Blackfish. He may be with the BwB although hanging around with your dead sister come back to life has to be weird. Just throwing this out there. It could be from LS POV. I know a lot of people think it would be a waste of paper writing from that psychopath's perspective, but this particular reader thinks it would be awesome. It won't be LS pov since Martin said we would never get a pov from her. Cat is dead. The death of Talisa in the tv series seems a bit too much "ok, she is dead, see it" sort of like lady Barbry "the dady doth protest much". It was too in our face. Get it out of your minds people. However, Jeyne, Queen Jeyne is the only known Stark (through marriage) alive and potentially, although, her mother denies it, is pregnant with the king or queen of the North should they be born and survive. Also, if any thing happens Roslin and her baby by Edmure, the true heir to Riverrun and the Riverlands. So, Jeyne, unless she is proven not pregnant or dead is VERY signifigant in the Novels. And because she was killed so clearly and definitely on the show it would not make sense that she goes on to give birth to the heir of the North and/or Riverlands and her child grows up and rules. She's got to be a dead man walking or someone that disappears without too much impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak and Iron Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 she isn't the pov. and grrm said that he may not be sticking to his rule about prologue/epilogue characters dying. i still think it is going to be the lannister's maesterI I think it will be a Maester also because it follows the prologue patterns so far. I think it will either be the Maester of Casterly Rock or the Crag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak and Iron Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I think you are confusing the Crag with Casterly Rock. Blindwolf is right, last we saw Jamie sent Jeyne to the Crag with an escort of guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Not That Littlefinger Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Oak and Iron, on 29 Jul 2014 - 4:36 PM, said: I think it will be a Maester also because it follows the prologue patterns so far. I think it will either be the Maester of Casterly Rock or the Crag. Thank you. Everyone is forgetting the "beyond the wall/maester" rule. I think it will be the maester at Casterly Rock because GRRM said we would get a pov there, and I don't see Cersei or Jaime going there any time soon. I think it will be a cool opportunity to get some insite into the lannisters' family backstory, kind of like the maester at the beginning of acok and the beratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecan Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I wonder if someone can fill me in. Did this speculation about Jeyne in the prologue come out of comicon? What exactly did GRRM say and is there a link to the video or interview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yes, it was the recent San Diego Comic Con. He compared the 1936 Gone With The Wind novel and the 1939 movie adaptation, and changes that were made regarding the character of Scarlett. I'd rather you see the link. Don't want to spoil anything for you in case you never read the book or saw the movie and want to. And then he made a comment regarding show Talisa and Jeyne from the book. Just google GRRM Comic Con. I don't have a link. I just bounced around google and caught the panel. It was about under an hour, from what I saw. But that was the biggest piece of news, I believe. No further explanations, just Jeyne, prologue, TWOW. He did not say pov, not pov, or really any other piece of information about her or the prologue, and rightly so. Just a nice nugget of a gift so we can further speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal 2 king of the North Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 My hopes are that JW is the prologue and lady stone heart captures her and kills her, and frees Edmure. When Brienne brings Jamie back I hope lady stone heart kills him and all the Freys. I want to see the Stark banners flying high in all the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogdevil Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Thank you. Everyone is forgetting the "beyond the wall/maester" rule. I think it will be the maester at Casterly Rock because GRRM said we would get a pov there, and I don't see Cersei or Jaime going there any time soon. I think it will be a cool opportunity to get some insite into the lannisters' family backstory, kind of like the maester at the beginning of acok and the beratheons. maybe a lannister Maester trying to force some moon tea on Jeyne and gets killed when the BWB frees her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtherSnow Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Didn't Kevan Lannister get Tommen to sign various documents including one pardoning The Westerlings? Jeyne would be held hostage, eventually at CR, along with other high profile hostages. Hostages make sure banners toe the line. As she is the last known Stark (by marriage), being hostage also make sense. Jeyne could be source of red herring to cover Blackfish whereabouts. Brynden / Blackfish? Could it be possible for LS to find him? Wouldn't LS now want to protect Jon Snow at The Wall. Also, his experience would help Jon no end, and he's someone Jon would look up to, as Ned was.Leap of faith here is LS realising how much Ned was protecting Jon, particularly after all she's been through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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