The Snark of Winterfell Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm sure this has been discussed but I couldn't find it. It's nothing groundbreaking and it's pretty straightforward. Quaithe's quote has been discussed a lot: The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and themummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.[4] For the most part we can all agree on most of them, but there has been debate over the perfumed seneshal. For my money it's Marwyn. We know Sam met him in the Seneschal's Court. We know he travels on the Cinnamon Wind. It's not great, but to me it's enough to generally fulfill the name. What we can speculate on is that Marwyn has been taking actions to get close to Dany. Mirri Maz Duur was trained by Marwyn and was placed in a situation to encounter Dany. I think Marwyn placed her there to gain Dany's trust and counsel her (or possibly steal a dragon egg) and MMD was supposed to get Dany on the Cinnamon Wind. The Cinnamon Wind was there bc of MMD/Marwyn. Dany did eventually sail on the ship and MMD was dead. Marwyn after Sam discusses Dany with him leaves immediately for Dany on the CW and orders Sam not to discuss Dany to anyone and return to the Wall. We know Marwyn is a major player who even has his hands in KL with Qyburn. I think he is obsessed with Magic and Valyria. He burns glass candles and practices in or at least his disciples practice in necromancy. He had a ship from the Summer Isles at his beckon call. And I would guess a maester such as this with his talent most likely learned shadowbinding is Assahi and every other possible manifestation of magic. Also his disciple MMD is Lhazareen. This guy is everywhere. He's on course to see Dany. I think it's him and he is a major major player in the upcoming events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Also, I think he was involved in the House of the Undying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Daario Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Marywn smells of sourleaf, not perfume. It doesn't fit. Where did you find a Qyburn/Marwyn connection. I must have missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What we can speculate on is that Marwyn has been taking actions to get close to Dany. Mirri Maz Duur was trained by Marwyn and was placed in a situation to encounter Dany. I think Marwyn placed her there to gain Dany's trust and counsel her (or possibly steal a dragon egg) and MMD was supposed to get Dany on the Cinnamon Wind. The Cinnamon Wind was there bc of MMD/Marwyn. Dany did eventually sail on the ship and MMD was dead. Whoa. Marwyn as the perfumed seneschal is not without merits. But if he 'planned' MMD, then he can predict the future with such accuracy that it'd make him almost omnipotent in this universe. can't you see the staggering odds involved in successfully predicting that by 'placing' MMD in that random lamb men tribe she would one day find herself in a position to earn Daenerys' trust? If he can anticipate these things to such a degree of accuracy, every single character in the serie might as well be his puppets and we've been watching the Marwyn show all along without knowing it. Contrary to what Mulder believes, there is such a thing as coincidences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Marwyn was the only one who stood up for Qyburn and encouraged his practices. They are connected and Marwyn is into some dark stuff. A Storm of Swords, Chapter 44, Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Debt Lannister Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I believe Qyburn says it was Marwyn who trained him in necromancy, or something like it... Doesn't mean he is evil, though. He may just have bad pupils.That being said, he may also be the first part of the prophecy. "Glass candles burning" may be Marwyn already, so the perfumed seneschal might be Varys, as most people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Debt Lannister Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Marwyn was the only one who stood up for Qyburn and encouraged his practices. They are connected and Marwyn is into some dark stuff. A Storm of Swords, Chapter 44, Jaime.This! Sorry for my mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Marywn smells of sourleaf, not perfume. It doesn't fit. Where did you find a Qyburn/Marwyn connection. I must have missed that. Qyburn mention him as the only maester open minded to some of his theories. It comes out while riding to king's landing with Jaime after he is freed from Harrenhal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Daario Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Qyburn mention him as the only maester open minded to some of his theories. It comes out while riding to king's landing with Jaime after he is freed from Harrenhal. Ah, that's right. Thanks for the answers. Still, just because Marwyn was Qyburn's professor at one point, is not enough to put the two of them in league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcia Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I always thought it meant Varys. Being that he's all powdered and perfumed up smelling of lilacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Daario Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I always thought it meant Varys. Being that he's all powdered and perfumed up smelling of lilacs. I've thought the same thing and I wonder why it's not brought up more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Whoa. Marwyn as the perfumed seneschal is not without merits. But if he 'planned' MMD, then he can predict the future with such accuracy that it'd make him almost omnipotent in this universe. can't you see the staggering odds involved in successfully predicting that by 'placing' MMD in that random lamb men tribe she would one day find herself in a position to earn Daenerys' trust? If he can anticipate these things to such a degree of accuracy, every single character in the serie might as well be his puppets and we've been watching the Marwyn show all along without knowing it. Contrary to what Mulder believes, there is such a thing as coincidences. I admit the MMD thing is the weakest part. It's asking a lot to plan and have work for you. He does have glass candles and would know the whereabouts of Dany. I do believe in coincidences and I also believe that everything in GRRM writing is purposeful. What makes it less of a coincidence for me is, she specifically mentioned Marwyn and the ship that Marwyn travels on is there. If the Cinnamon Wind wasn't the ship that Dany traveled on, I would be in line with coincidence. Paid Debt Lannister I agree with you on the glass candles is there for him, I am posting a theory the perfumed seneschal is Marwyn and I think he is involved with the sorcerers in Quarth. That is 3 connections, don't know if that makes it stronger or weaker, but I took it as the glass candles are burning, refers to magic in general and the House of the undying thing is the sorcerers are still out to get ya. Like I said MMD may be a failed attempt to steal a Dragon egg and I think the House of the Undying was a failed attempt to steal (or at least hold onto) the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The reason I don't think it's Marwyn is that he's going to Meereen purely to protect Dany and her dragons. She has no reason to beware him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I admit the MMD thing is the weakest part. It's asking a lot to plan and have work for you. He does have glass candles and would know the whereabouts of Dany. I do believe in coincidences and I also believe that everything in GRRM writing is purposeful. Yes, there is a purpose, but that purpose is even more likely to serve the narrative than to lay the ground work for a conspiracy. The reason the author gives us this tidbit of information is to inform our eventual opinion of Marwyn. We've now heard learned quite a bit about Marwyn. Through MMD, Qyburn, the students chatting in the AfFC prologue, even through Maester Luwin (The first to tell us that some Maester do study magic and forge the Valyrian steel link). When he shows up and plays an important role, he won't seem to come out of the blue, we'll almost feel like we know this guy Such information basically tells us that Marwyn is someone to be reckoned with now, that's the author purpose. I'm eager to meet this guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The reason I don't think it's Marwyn is that he's going to Meereen purely to protect Dany and her dragons. She has no reason to beware him. I don't think someone who approves of Qyburns researches is going to Meereen to act as a magical bodyguard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berric_Dondiedagain Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Isn't Marwyn the one who tells us that the citadel is not as benign as we (at least I) first assumed? That they are responsible for the death of the previous dragons? and they are not just into knowledge but replacing mysticism and magic with what amounts to Westerosi science.He is also the one who has Alleras bring Sam to him- If Sarella is Alleras then helping Marwyn against Dany goes against Dorne's goals for the throne I think Marwyn will be there to help Dany- that is the impression I had- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driesel Snow Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Isn't Marwyn the one who tells us that the citadel is not as benign as we (at least I) first assumed? That they are responsible for the death of the previous dragons? and they are not just into knowledge but replacing mysticism and magic with what amounts to Westerosi science. He is also the one who has Alleras bring Sam to him- If Sarella is Alleras then helping Marwyn against Dany goes against Dorne's goals for the throne I think Marwyn will be there to help Dany- that is the impression I had- I believe he is the one that tells us that citadel killed the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I think it's Varys. Who else? Someone should have warned Kevan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusted Iron Hinge Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 When reading that quote from Quaithe, I get the impression that the perfumed seneschal is more dangerous than all of the others listed. He gets his own separate sentence, whereas the others are all jam-packed into a single warning. I'll eat three-eyed crow if it isn't Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutch Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Since it hasn't been brought up in this thread, I'll throw in the Selaesori Qhoran, aka The Stinky Steward. Obviously not the boat itself, but Tyrion or Jorah I would guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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