Blackfyre Gateau Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 What if Arya had indeed been captured by the Lannister guards during the sack of the Hand's household or captured while trying to retrieve Needle by a group more formidable than the stable boy? Think back to the initial few weeks between the Gold Colaks/ House Lannister massacre of Ned's household and Tyrion's eventual arrival in KL. Now I'm convinced that Cersei would want to keep Arya alive as a prized hostage, but would this really have been possible under Joffrey? My view is he would have killed her, if not by premeditation/ specific design, then when his 'blood was up' over news of Robb's success in the war. Even Sansa can barely contain what Joffrey would perceive as 'treacherous insolence' ("or maybe my brother will give me your head"). The only way I see Arya surviving in the initial weeks - prior to Tyrion's arrival - is if Cersei had had the wisdom to essentially 'do a Tommen' and send Arya off furtively Castle Rosby or another secure castle/ holdfast outside of KL. And I don't think she would have - she'd not have given her the freedom of the Castle as she did with Sansa, and I think Cersei would have thought that would be enough, to just keep Arya behind closed doors. Other people's views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 She didn't exactly do a good job of protecting Sansa, when Sansa was still seen as being valuable currency in treating with Robb. So I somewhat doubt that Cersei has any power of control over Joffrey. Now, if Jaime had made it back to KL and Arya was still alive? I can believe he'd put a stop to any torment, as he seems pretty sincere when reprimanding the Kingsguard knights who beat Sansa on Joffrey's command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Gateau Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yeah, but that's the kicker - I think long before either Tyrion, or later Jaime, ever reached KL she'd have been killed by Joffrey. Perhaps she'd even have been the victim of one of his 'fight to the death' japes in court, on a pure whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyannaisalive Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 She couldn't control Joffrey, that's what started all this. If she had just prevented Joffrey from taking Neds head a lot could have been avoided. Ned would be sent to the wall and Robb would have bent the knee. Cersei thinks shes this great Lannister but she couldn't even control a 12 year old boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmicteeth Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I think Arya would have killed joffery before becoming his captive now that would have been interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yeah, but that's the kicker - I think long before either Tyrion, or later Jaime, ever reached KL she'd have been killed by Joffrey. Perhaps she'd even have been the victim of one of his 'fight to the death' japes in court, on a pure whim. I'd like to think if he'd commanded any of the Kingsguard to actually fight her in any sort of trial by combat or fight to the death, someone would put a stop to it. But other than Sandor, who would? Ser Arys is clearly troubled by even lightly slapping Sansa after initially refusing, so I can't see him agreeing to slay Arya. But some of the others?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Gateau Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I think Arya would have killed joffery before becoming his captive now that would have been interesting I think if she'd been looking at Ned's head, she'd have taken herself and Joffrey over the edge in the way that Sansa saw the opening. But then again, Sandor may not have let her stand so near to Joffrey as to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Gateau Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I'd like to think if he'd commanded any of the Kingsguard to actually fight her in any sort of trial by combat or fight to the death, someone would put a stop to it. But other than Sandor, who would? Ser Arys is clearly troubled by even lightly slapping Sansa after initially refusing, so I can't see him agreeing to slay Arya. But some of the others?... Ah, but Joffrey may well have turned to one of the sellswords that were already hanging on around the court - or simply commanded 'dead eyes' Boros Blount to do it. Even worse, you could see him doing a Vargo Hoat and forcing her to fight a wild beast with a stick sword... In short, when Joffrey has his blood up, I don't think he'd listen to ANYONE bar his Grandfather in full 'battle commander voice'. When Tyrion is able to beat him during the riot in King's Landing its because Joffrey is afraid (he's the definitive craven masquerading as a predator of the series) - but when he's enraged, I don't think Cersei, Tyrion or Jaime could have contained him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandrakeWench Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Cersei would have had to protect Joffrey from Arya, not the other way around. He's a sniveling little worm and was never very clever either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHouseHB Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Maybe Cersei would have had the Hound guard Arya instead of Joffrey for Joffrey's and Arya's protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 No, she could not protect Sansa from him either and even worse when Tywin got there. I am surprised Tywin did not marry Sansa for himself. Arya probably would have been wed to Lancel or something/someone stupid but Lannister no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Cersei would have had to protect Joffrey from Arya, not the other way around. Yup. Arya would have killed herself to get to him, if necessary. If you left Arya any sort of weapon - even a chopstick - she'd have stuck him with the pointy end. Failing that, she'd tear his throat out with her teeth. "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you - You're locked in here with me!" :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yep, I've always seen Arya as Scrappy Doo. Always talking shit no matter how big anybody is "lemme at him, I'll splat him!"So yeh, she either kills somebody or gets kill if she's hostaged in KL. No way she submits to the authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I doubt Cersei would care, seeing how that seems to have been her general attitude to him abusing Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Arya would have been in big trouble. Cersei wanted Arya dead or maimed after the incident on the Trident, when Ned and all his guards and King Robert and his guards were there. Would Cersei even have the sense to want Arya alive and unhurt? The best Arya could have hoped for would have been to be kept locked up like a caged animal and even then she would have attempted to gouge the eyes out of anyone who came near her. If she's locked up though, then Cersei can use her power as regent to get authority over Joffrey. The only times Joffrey was able to 'overrule' her was in spur of the moment things like Ned's beheading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Cersei did absolutely nothing to keep Sansa alive apart from saying that she shouldn't be killed, which was next to meaningless, as Sansa could easily have been killed by any of the beatings Joffrey's knights carried out (the first one involved her being smashed across the side of the head with a mailed fist so hard that it drew blood; later she was beaten with the flat of a steel blade so many times she lost count of the blows). Given that track record, a captive Arya would almost certainly have been killed, either intentionally or unintentionally; when you consider how much Joffrey apparently loathes Sansa for merely have witnessed his failure, he must hate Arya far more than that (it's weird to remember that they never interact again after the Kingsroad incident). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltron Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Arya would be dead by trying to kill Joffrey or by killing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Santa of House Claus Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Cersei did absolutely nothing to keep Sansa alive apart from saying that she shouldn't be killed, which was next to meaningless, as Sansa could easily have been killed by any of the beatings Joffrey's knights carried out (the first one involved her being smashed across the side of the head with a mailed fist so hard that it drew blood; later she was beaten with the flat of a steel blade so many times she lost count of the blows). Given that track record, a captive Arya would almost certainly have been killed, either intentionally or unintentionally; when you consider how much Joffrey apparently loathes Sansa for merely have witnessed his failure, he must hate Arya far more than that (it's weird to remember that they never interact again after the Kingsroad incident). To be fair, it is not hard to draw blood from a wound to the head, the skin is thin and tends to bleed a lot (taking shaving nicks as an example). But there is a difference between senseless beatings and killing a hostage. Cersei did nothing to stop Joffrey from beating Sansa, but I do not think her life was every really in danger. I think Cersei would have had just enough wit to make sure the guards knew not to take things to far. It would have been the same for Arya, assuming she would have been allowed out of her chambers, and that would have been unlikely. Her first time out she would have tried to either escape or kill Joffrey, at which point she would have been locked away. The Hound always stepped in to protect Sansa after a point, he likely would have done the same for Arya. While it is fun to imagine her killing Joffrey, that would have been highly unlikely. At that point in the story, she had only a few months of lessons with Cerio, she was not the budding assassin yet, she was not hardened by her trip North or to Bravvos. In all likelihood she would have been kept alive by being locked away like some Disney Princess. Cersei would have had just enough wit instruct the guards to disregard an order by Joffrey to bring her to him or to kill her or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxian Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 If Cersei couldn't control Joffery, she had even less of a chance controlling Arya the way she did Sansa. I don't think Arya could have succeed in killing Joffrey (with the Kingsguard protecting him) but she would have killed herself trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I think Cersei would have had just enough wit to make sure the guards knew not to take things to far.Sansa's beatings could easily have killed her, and there's no indication that any of the guards had been advised to do anything else (indeed, their reactions to both Tyrion and later Jaime's reprimands make it rather obvious there was no such command). Cersei never demonstrated the slightest concern about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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