Was Shae cheating on Tyrion?

[JaegrM]

I recently let my friend borrow my books, and he mentioned something to me that I'd never thought of before.

He believes Shae was still working as a prostitute in King's Landing behind Tyrion's back.

they're in possession of the books currently so I can't verify everything, but the facts they're using to back up their theory are that Shae always smells freshly washed when Tyrion meets with her, she invites at least Symon into her bed chambers to "sing" for her, and she supposedly has some interaction with a knight?

I just wanted to know if anyone else had thought of this, or if my friend is jumping to conclusions

[Aemond's Eye]

How can she be "cheating" on him? They were never in a relationship. Tyrion paid her for the girlfriend experience - the residence she was given, and all the trappings that came with it, were her payment. Sure, as part of the agreement she was to take no other lover, but Tyrion didn't have Symon killed because Shae "cheated" - it was partly out of jealousy and because he hinted at blackmailing him.

Tyrion being a bit of an idiot and believing in his own delusion does not mean Shae was in a romantic relationship with him.

[I'm the Party Pooper]

It depends on what u suppose was their contract. I seem to remember - but I might be wrong - that Tyrion clearly stated she would have had to be working exclusively for him for the time he hired her.

In principle as a whore having more customers ain't a problem. Does this contract clause qualify her as cheating on Tyrion? Well we don't know whether the other lovers she brought in her bed were "paying customers" or just people she gave a free ride in order to prepare a fall back network of relationships for when Tyrion would have been fed up with her.. or people she loved or enjoyed to stay with. To clear out this point someone should get the exact wording of Tyrion's contract clause, because I can't remember it.

Yet it is unclear whether Tyrion did maintain his own side of the contract, since at some point he strips her of (some of) the gifts he has given her and puts her to work under cover to "protect her".. yet this part wasn't in the initial deal, she was supposed to be showered down with gold coins for her years to come, wasn't she?

So if there is ground for proving Tyrion did not respect his part of the deal regardless of her actions, then whatever she has done does not qualify as cheating.

Surely there is no love cheating there, because there was no love to start with.

[joluoto2]

I think it's left a little ambiguous on purpose. She might have cheated on him with Symon, she might not have. The main meaning of that episode was what Tyrion would do if he suspected she was cheating on him.

[Aemond's Eye]

Well, given that he stripped her of her payment, put her to work as a servant and still expected her services - due to believing in his own mind that they actually were in a relationship - then what else could he do? Either kill her, or send her away.

[The Holy Goat]

I actually think she held her part of their initial bargain: don't share bed with any other man as long as she's hired by Tyrion. Only when Tyrion was accused of regicide did she jump into another's bed I think, and that was Tywin's.

[Annara Snow]

No, I believe she was committed to sticking to the rules of the job she had taken on. It would have been stupid to do otherwise. Tyrion was the wealthiest, most powerful client she could have hoped for. Your friend is right about one thing: she was still working as a prostitute - for Tyrion.

Also, while Shae clearly enjoyed being able to talk to other people and spend time with them in a non sexual way (Varys, Chella), I get the impression that she had probably, as a result of her father's sexual abuse, developed a detached, clinical and mercenary attitude to sex as just something she uses to make a living and get ahead in the world and obtain a better status for herself. I don't think she would be having an affair for love, fun or enjoyment, especially not if it was likely to endanger her job and advancement prospects.

[Aemond's Eye]

I actually think she held her part of their initial bargain: don't share bed with any other man as long as she's hired by Tyrion. Only when Tyrion was accused of regicide did she jump into another's bed I think, and that was Tywin's.

To be fair, by that point Tyrion has reneged on his part of the bargain.

[MandrakeWench]

I figured she was banging Tywin.

[No Song so Sweet]

Shae was above all, a whore. Even if she was not working as one because she temporarily stopped that because of her contract, this is what she would be doing eventually. But I think she didn't stop. The interesting part, for me, is why she was with Tywin, since Tywin despised whores and specifically told Tyrion to not bring his whores to KL.

I think that is explained by two factors:

1) Tywin was sick because of Oberyn's poison and he needed some comfort, but since he has no wife or close friends, a woman's embrace would alleviate some of his pain.

2) I don't think he had sex with her or that he knew Shae was a whore, he thought she was just a servant and called her in the room to cuddle or whatever. He wouldn't be able to have sex if he was constipated badly.

3) He gave her Joanna's jewlry temporarily because Shae could have looked in the drawers and admired them, but I don't think he would let her keep it. Maybe some of it, but he would keep some for sentimental reasons. He did love Joanna.

[Lord Damian]

The question is, did Shae have sex with any other man or woman other than Tyrion from book 1 until her caught her in his father's bed and killed her? Probably as she was a prostitute in order to make a living and Tyrion's "marriage" and great risk to her own safety probably made her think she needed to find other options as Tyrion was a dead end.

[Annara Snow]

Shae was above all, a whore. Even if she was not working as one because she temporarily stopped that because of her contract, this is what she would be doing eventually. But I think she didn't stop.

She was working as a whore. As Tyrion's whore.

The interesting part, for me, is why she was with Tywin, since Tywin despised whores and specifically told Tyrion to not bring his whores to KL.

I think that is explained by two factors:

1) Tywin was sick because of Oberyn's poison and he needed some comfort, but since he has no wife or close friends, a woman's embrace would alleviate some of his pain.

2) I don't think he had sex with her or that he knew Shae was a whore, he thought she was just a servant and called her in the room to cuddle or whatever. He wouldn't be able to have sex if he was constipated badly.

3) He gave her Joanna's jewlry temporarily because Shae could have looked in the drawers and admired them, but I don't think he would let her keep it. Maybe some of it, but he would keep some for sentimental reasons. He did love Joanna.

That's impossible. Shae was the star witness at the trial. Tywin was presiding over the trial. Of course he knew who she was.

The excuses you come up for Tywin are quite funny. He liked whores, plain and simple. He just didn't want anyone to know about it and hated the way Tyrion was public and open about it. Odds are he was that former Hand of the King who had a secret passage built to Chataya's because his "honor" (i.e. pride and public image) would not allow him to let people know about his visits to the brothel.

[No Song so Sweet]

She was working as a whore. As Tyrion's whore.

That's impossible. Shae was the star witness at the trial. Tywin was presiding over the trial. Of course he knew who she was.

The excuses you come up for Tywin are quite funny. He liked whores, plain and simple. He just didn't want anyone to know about it and hated the way Tyrion was public and open about it. Odds are he was that former Hand of the King who had a secret passage built to Chataya's because his "honor" (i.e. pride and public image) would not allow him to let people know about his visits to the brothel.

You 're right in the first part.

She wasn't the star witness, just the one that affected Tyrion the most because of their personal relationship and because everyone laughed at him after that. But a lot of other witnesses gave more "evidence".

It is entirely possible that Tywin just liked whores but wanted to hide it. However, I want to make an excuse for Tywin because I find it really hard to believe that he is just a hypocrite, because from his character we don't see that anywhere else, like whatever he asked from his children are things that he, himself, actually did.

[grumkin77]

She wasn't the star witness, just the one that affected Tyrion the most

She was the only one, though, who claimed that she actually knew about Tyrion's plan to murder Jeoffry. What the rest of the witnesses presented was just circumstantial evidence :) .

[Wmarshal]

Probably.

[Annara Snow]

You 're right in the first part.

She wasn't the star witness, just the one that affected Tyrion the most because of their personal relationship and because everyone laughed at him after that. But a lot of other witnesses gave more "evidence".

It is entirely possible that Tywin just liked whores but wanted to hide it. However, I want to make an excuse for Tywin because I find it really hard to believe that he is just a hypocrite, because from his character we don't see that anywhere else, like whatever he asked from his children are things that he, himself, actually did.

You mean like, making them marry for political reasons, however they felt about it? Something he was also doing himself? Oh wait... He wasn't.

Shae was the crucial witness, the only one who claimed to know Tyrion was planning to murder Joffrey. And even if she hadn't been, there's no way he didn't notice her at the trial, testifying against his son and talking about their sex life.

[ChillyPolly]

He believes Shae was still working as a prostitute in King's Landing behind Tyrion's back.

There is no evidence of this. It's possible, of course, but there is no evidence. The one thing Shae was fairly consistent about is that she did NOT want to be a prostitute.

the facts they're using to back up their theory are that Shae always smells freshly washed when Tyrion meets with her

Isn't that what Tyrion likes? Pleasing him is her "job".

she invites at least Symon into her bed chambers to "sing" for her

I remember nothing about "bed chambers", though I could be wrong. He visits her in her manse, where Tyrion keeps her a virtual prisoner, to sing. He is a middle-aged man with a pot belly, and she has no company other than vicious hill savages. Even this makes Tyrion angry, because he is so possessive and jealous. Of course, he ends up murdering Symon.

and she supposedly has some interaction with a knight?

Not sure what he is referring to. At the Greenfork, she was apparently the mistress of a squire or knight, who she said had promised to marry her. (Bronn said he was a knight, but since Bronn did not even learn his name, he would hardly know the difference - a squire is a knight in training who has not taken formal vows yet).

Tyrion thought of marrying her to a hedge knight - Sir Tallad - but this seems to have been strictly Tyrion's idea.

I just wanted to know if anyone else had thought of this, or if my friend is jumping to conclusions

I think your friend is identifying with Tyrion. We see Shae through Tyrion's eyes, and Tyrion has a possessive and jealous nature.

[Gneisenau]

Personally, I think in Shae's POV, Tyrion broke the contract once he moved her out of the mansion with luxuries into becoming some castle worker.

[moneyspills]

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