Night's Watch Deserter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've read a number of posts theorising about Jon, Sansa, Rickon and even Benjen's return to WInterfell to fill the Stark void. However, since reading the 'Theon' chapter from the TWOW I'm now wondering if it won't be Arya Stark. Call it poetic justice, but I've always had the feeling that Arya would be the one to kill the Bastard of Bolton, ever since their characters were linked through their marriage in name. The 'Theon' chapter released from the TWOW provides the possible motive, means and opportunity for delivering Arya back to Winterfell to make this happen. Sannis does a deal for financial support with the Iron Bank and instructs Justin Massey to go with the Banker to Bravos to hire mercenaries and Sellsword company. Massey upon arriving in Bravos will find out, as we already know, that the Golden Company and the Second Sons have thrown in their lot with Sannis's Targaryen rivals for the Iron Throne. Also the news will reach Bravos of Sannis's defeat and (faked or real) death at the hands of Ramsey Bolton. So I doubt many mercenaries will risk their lives to sign-up for a cause that is already lost. Disillusioned by his failure to complete his mission and motivated by revenge, Massey will take the opportunity presented by being in Bravos, to hire the Faceless Men to kill Ramsey Bolton (he certainly has the cash to do so!). I can't remember reading any details about how the Faceless Men select an assassin for a particular mission, but logically they would look for any advantage to improve the chances of success. Therefore, it would make some sense to choose a person who has intimate knowledge of the location, speaks the language, understands the local customs and religion and thus can easily blend in.....Arya. Having travelled back to Winterfell and found a way to put an end to Ramsey, Arya consumed by a sense of home and belonging will resume her natural features and announce her true identity (possibly to Ramsey as he is at the point of death). In doing so, Arya will fulfil the Stark prophecy: Winter is coming & there must always be a Stark in Winterfell.....to stop Winter from winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Davos Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think Winter has arrived because there is no Stark in Winterfell as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Night's Watch Deserter, welcome to the boards... May you have nice and pleasant time here :cheers: I am sorry, but this sound like truly wishing scenario for me. Arya is someone who would have quite numerous obstacles in ruling Great House. The fact that her story is about "taking lives, not giving it", that the ruling demands a certain political capability, the fact that she has brothers... I have no doubt that she will return to WF one day, as most likely all Starks will, but returning and ruling is far-fetched IMO... As it is also that she goes and become some Rambo in WF... FM won't let her go so easily... I think Winter has arrived because there is no Stark in Winterfell as well Also, welcome to you, Maester Davos... Winters come and go as seasons regardless whether Starks are in or out of Winterfell. Plus the end of summer in AGOT and autumn that started in ACOK, clearly suggested that winter was indeed coming. And it came... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 But Mladen, does Arya have to rule? The saying is "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell." It doesn't say THE Stark, or a Stark Lord/Ruler/Male. Remember there was the time of the She-Wolves of Winterfell and nothing to dreadful happened that I know of. Maybe all it takes is one member of House Stark being in residence. Of course without glass gardens and the walls connected to the hot springs, she'd likely die. So that part isn't good. OP, I love the idea of Ramsay being taken out by his "wife." That would be an awesome scene. Ramsay: Who are you?Arya: Darling, don't you recognize me?Ramsay: Should I?Arya (sneaking a strangler into the wine) Well we've been married for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 But Mladen, does Arya have to rule? The saying is "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell." It doesn't say THE Stark, or a Stark Lord/Ruler/Male. Remember there was the time of the She-Wolves of Winterfell and nothing to dreadful happened that I know of. Maybe all it takes is one member of House Stark being in residence. Well, "Stark in Winterfell" has been used in story as Stark who is left in charge of WF. Ned and Cat said the line when they are leaving Robb to rule, and then later Bran is there... She doesn't have to rule, but the line strongly implies some sort of not only residence, but taking care of WF. Well, generally, I think that line is more of a catch-phrase than actual warning. That been said. I doubt some chaos would happen if there is no Stark in Winterfell. In setting like this, these words, beliefs bear a lot of potency in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well, "Stark in Winterfell" has been used in story as Stark who is left in charge of WF. Ned and Cat said the line when they are leaving Robb to rule, and then later Bran is there... She doesn't have to rule, but the line strongly implies some sort of not only residence, but taking care of WF. Well, generally, I think that line is more of a catch-phrase than actual warning. That been said. I doubt some chaos would happen if there is no Stark in Winterfell. In setting like this, these words, beliefs bear a lot of potency in them. Good point. But there are many who would disagree about the idea that the words are just something people say. I've seen a lot of discussion of the possibility that the Starks in Winterfell holds the Others at bay somehow. No proof, mind you, just ideas. Though Night's King having been a Stark does play into that possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Good point. But there are many who would disagree about the idea that the words are just something people say. I've seen a lot of discussion of the possibility that the Starks in Winterfell holds the Others at bay somehow. No proof, mind you, just ideas. Though Night's King having been a Stark does play into that possibility. Again, if the "Stark in Winterfell" means that he/she will keep Others at bay, then again, Arya would barely fit into that profile. Jon is most likely the Stark to do so... Not only that she doesn't know about Others, she lacks commanding skills that are needed in such period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't think Arya's arc is headed that way. I also don't think she will stay with the FM much longer and become a full capacity FM. Her business is in the South and she has blood in her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I like this theory. I also think Arya would be a good one to kill Roose Bolton because she was his cupbearer once and therefore knows a lot about him and how to get him when he's vulnerable. As for there being a Stark in WF, well atm all the Starks are a long way from WF, so if Arya could temporarily fill that void until Rickon returns, then that would help. No Stark in WF = chaos in the north. There's not much Arya could do personally but the mere fact of there being a genuine Stark in WF would help to smooth things out and get things returning to normal. But Rickon may arrive before she could get there anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Song so Sweet Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I like the theory as a thought, I don't think it is likely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Arya has the true steel, enough to be the queen of winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Again, if the "Stark in Winterfell" means that he/she will keep Others at bay, then again, Arya would barely fit into that profile. Jon is most likely the Stark to do so... Not only that she doesn't know about Others, she lacks commanding skills that are needed in such period. I'm not talking about her fighting skills, knowledge of the Others, or ability to lead. I'm talking blood magic. The possibility that the mere presence of a Stark in Winterfell makes a difference. Agreed that Jon would be better suited to lead a fight against anybody, and particularly the Others. But he's not a Stark, so it's a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I think Winter has arrived because there is no Stark in Winterfell as well ^^ This. There's something else I've been curious about as well. If there must always be a Stark in Winterfell--and even the wildlings believe that--must there also always been a Stark on the Wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladywhiskers Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Arya has the true steel, enough to be the queen of winter. Arya isn't interested in ruling. She isn't interested in people, other than when she gets to kill one. She's into killing people she doesn't like. She isn't interested in making speeches or appearing in public, getting married, having kids, or maintaining a home, let alone a castle. She likes to wander. I think the FM is the perfect place for her. What she wants, is to sneak around killing everyone on her list, and a few who aren't on it. The Stark in Winterfell can't be Arya because she's nobody. It can't be Bran because he's a tree, apparently. It probably can't be Rickon because he's most likely been eaten by a cannibal, and it won't be Robb because he's dead, (although Lady Stoneheart could fix that.) My money's on Sansa, even though she's a Lannister, because she is also a Stark by birth. Alternatively, Lady Stoneheart could take the place. She is a Stark by marriage. Jon Snow isn't a Stark, exactly, and so I'm not sure he can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I like this theory. I also think Arya would be a good one to kill Roose Bolton because she was his cupbearer once and therefore knows a lot about him and how to get him when he's vulnerable. As for there being a Stark in WF, well atm all the Starks are a long way from WF, so if Arya could temporarily fill that void until Rickon returns, then that would help. No Stark in WF = chaos in the north. There's not much Arya could do personally but the mere fact of there being a genuine Stark in WF would help to smooth things out and get things returning to normal. But Rickon may arrive before she could get there anyway. I'm hoping for Roose Bolton vs. Lady Stoneheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SugarCrisp Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 What I always wondered is how Catelyn, a southerner, is the one to bring up "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Rod Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Arya isn't interested in ruling. She isn't interested in people, other than when she gets to kill one. She's into killing people she doesn't like. She isn't interested in making speeches or appearing in public, getting married, having kids, or maintaining a home, let alone a castle. She likes to wander. I think the FM is the perfect place for her. What she wants, is to sneak around killing everyone on her list, and a few who aren't on it. The Stark in Winterfell can't be Arya because she's nobody. It can't be Bran because he's a tree, apparently. It probably can't be Rickon because he's most likely been eaten by a cannibal, and it won't be Robb because he's dead, (although Lady Stoneheart could fix that.) My money's on Sansa, even though she's a Lannister, because she is also a Stark by birth. Alternatively, Lady Stoneheart could take the place. She is a Stark by marriage. Jon Snow isn't a Stark, exactly, and so I'm not sure he can do it. That is a fundamental misinterpretation of Arya's character. She is one of, if not THE most, people oriented Starks. Everywhere she goes, she makes friends and socializes. From Mycah, to Gendry, Lommy and Hot Pie, to Talea, Brea, Tagganaro, Casso, the Happy Port whores, to the mummers at the Ship, Arya HAS to make friends. It is as defining an element of who she is as her love for Jon Snow. Take that away, and she will truly be nobody. You'll notice, if you've read the books (and looking at your post I'm not sure you have), that that element of her personality is very much still there. If anyone is "the pack wolf", it's her. Sansa is the lone wolf, the one forced to rely entirely on herself, and that is possible foreshadowing for Sansa's death. Arya is most definitely NOT nobody. That's one of the central themes of her time with the FM, that try as she might, she just can't let go. Bran, I agree. He can be ruled out. Rickon-kebabs are not happening. He's one of the likeliest candidates. I don't even know what you're talking about here. Lady Stoneheart can't bring back Robb, he's been dead for almost two years now. LS as the Stark in Winterfell? Da Fuq? Jon Snow has Stark blood, that's what matters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I'm not talking about her fighting skills, knowledge of the Others, or ability to lead. I'm talking blood magic. The possibility that the mere presence of a Stark in Winterfell makes a difference. Agreed that Jon would be better suited to lead a fight against anybody, and particularly the Others. But he's not a Stark, so it's a moot point. If you discuss blood magic, then in surname v blood equation, you have to count that blood trumps surname. remember what Illyrio said: "red or black, a dragon is a dragon" Same principle works here. ^^ This. There's something else I've been curious about as well. If there must always be a Stark in Winterfell--and even the wildlings believe that--must there also always been a Stark on the Wall? Just explain me are you arguing that in 8000 years while Starks ruled in Winterfell (including 8 winters in the period of 274-290 AL when we know that Rickard and Ned Stark ruled in Winterfell) there were no actual winters? Because, that makes no sense Not necessarily... I doubt that every Stark generation was giving a son for NW. They are friends of NW, but I doubt that "there must always be a Stark on the Wall"? Arya isn't interested in ruling. She isn't interested in people, other than when she gets to kill one. She's into killing people she doesn't like. She isn't interested in making speeches or appearing in public, getting married, having kids, or maintaining a home, let alone a castle. She likes to wander. I think the FM is the perfect place for her. What she wants, is to sneak around killing everyone on her list, and a few who aren't on it. The Stark in Winterfell can't be Arya because she's nobody. It can't be Bran because he's a tree, apparently. It probably can't be Rickon because he's most likely been eaten by a cannibal, and it won't be Robb because he's dead, (although Lady Stoneheart could fix that.) My money's on Sansa, even though she's a Lannister, because she is also a Stark by birth. Alternatively, Lady Stoneheart could take the place. She is a Stark by marriage. Jon Snow isn't a Stark, exactly, and so I'm not sure he can do it. 1. Arya isn't Nobody... The entire point of Needle and wolf dreams show us how Starks are clinging to their identity. Same with Sansa... You can;t find anyone in the books using "Sansa Lannister" 2. Bran is a greenseer, and it will pass years before he becomes tree. In the meantime, his presence at the WF's Godswood is rather telling. Jon is a Stark... In this series, maternal lineages do count... That is a fundamental misinterpretation of Arya's character. She is one of, if not THE most, people oriented Starks. Everywhere she goes, she makes friends and socializes. From Mycah, to Gendry, Lommy and Hot Pie, to Talea, Brea, Tagganaro, Casso, the Happy Port whores, to the mummers at the Ship, Arya HAS to make friends. It is as defining an element of who she is as her love for Jon Snow. Take that away, and she will truly be nobody. You'll notice, if you've read the books (and looking at your post I'm not sure you have), that that element of her personality is very much still there. If anyone is "the pack wolf", it's her. Sansa is the lone wolf, the one forced to rely entirely on herself, and that is possible foreshadowing for Sansa's death. OK, you lost me here. Sansa, just as Arya, just as Rickon, Jon and Bran are now being the "lone wolves". They are creating their new, small packs, like Arya with Gendry and HotPie, Jon with NW, Sansa with Margaery and her ladies, Bran with Reeds, Rickon with Osha. Basically, Stark children are paralleling each other beautifully in their roads and their dealings after Ned's and later after Cat's and Robb's death. All of them are "pack wolves", that is why their sentiment to home is that overwhelming (Bran's comparison of himself with WF, Needle, snow castle scene, dreams about Winterfell crypts), but their lives made them lone wolves who created these "packs" to survive... But, their true pack, or as we like to call it, House Stark of Winterfell, is their original and most important pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkrider Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 The idea of Arya killing Ramsay has occurred to me before. She has a thing for poetic justice-type deaths, and the idea of Ramsay being hunted through the woods by Nymeria and her pack the way he used to hunt girls with his dogs is very karmic. And I don't think she'd like being married in absentia, or anything about Ramsay and his...habits or the way he sacked Winterfell. She'd certainly have enough motive to add him to her list, if she ever found out. Her ruling I think is less likely. She hasn't really developed the political skills or had the training necessary to run a kingdom by herself. I could see her helping as part of a team effort with her family, but not by herself. Pod the Rod--I don't think that any of the Starks are really antisocial. Sansa bonds easily with Margaery in KL, and Myranda Royce and Mya in the Vale. Jon makes friends with his fellow recruits easily enough once he gets his head out of where it was stuck. I'd say Bran is the one with the most difficulty getting along with people, and the fewest friends, but he's both the youngest and while he's stuck in a cave he isn't exactly going to have much opportunity to socialize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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