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Most powerful non great houses


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#1 Kenton Stark

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:19 PM

How would you rank the most powerful non great houses at the beginning of the novels.

 

Here is my list

 

1. Royce

2. Hightower

3. Manderly

4.Redwyne

5. Yronwood

6. Tarly

7. Umber

8. Dayne

9. Dondarrion

10. Frey

11Karstark

12 Malister

13 Blackwood

14 cRAKEHALL

15 Swann

16Bracken

17 Ryswell

18 Marbrand

19 Brax

20

Waynwood

21 Redfort

22Rowan

23 Fowler

24 Corbray

25 Reed

26 Griffin

27 Vance

28 Rosby

29 Piper

30 Dustin

31 Oakheart

32 Florent

33 Fossoway

34 Caron

35 Flint

36 Darry

37 Harlaw

38 Merryweather

39 Goodbrother

40 Blackmont

41 Allyrion

42 Velaryon

43 Celtigar

44 Plumm

4 Whent

 

 



#2 Dain Storm

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:30 PM

Im not sure where to ranks them, so I'll list rank the strongest from each region

The North-
Manderly
Bolton
Dustin

The Riverlands-
Frey
Mallister

The Iron Islands-
Harlaw
Goodbrother

The Vale-
Royce
Waynwood?

The Westerlands-
Crakehall
Lefford
Marbrand

Crownlands-
Rosby
Massey

Stormlands-
Swann
Caron
Dondarrion

The Reach-
Hightower
Redwyne
Maybe Tarly or Rowan

Dorne-
Yronwood
Fowler

#3 Ingelheim

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

North: Bolton, Manderly, Karstark.

 

The Reach: Hightower, Redwyne and Tarly

 

Dorne: Yronwood, Fowler, Dayne

 

The Riverlands: Frey, Mallister and Blackwood



#4 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:45 PM

1.House Hightower is a de facto Great House. It is ridiculously rich from the Oldtown trade, most Houses south of Brightwater Keep is sworn to it, and it can field thrice more men than any other Tyrell bannermen. Since House Tyrell can field the most soldiers it is obvious House Hightower is the strongest non-Great House in Westeros. Also, it has a major ally-the Citadel. House Hightower is probably stronger than House Martell, if not militarily, then economically. It is CERTAINLY able to crush House Royce.
2. House Redwyne has a fleet as large as the Iron Fleet, and the Arbor seems quite fertile. Second place.
3. House Manderly is rich, folks. It has a quite large city under its control, and Lord Wyman influences much of the North, from Moat Cailin to Widow's Watch. Ramsgate is directly sworn to it. Add to that the silver mines, and you have a very powerful House. Third place.
4. The Dornish Marches are quite big, and Nightsong a formidable castle. House Dondarrion and all of the Marches are sworn to House Caron. But why fourth place? Well, a hundred years ago, House Caron could directly field 4000 men-as large as the entire Frey army, including Frey bannermen- and one of their bannermen, House Dondarrion, could field 1000. So apparently, House Caron can summon something like 6500 men. Quite surprising for a not prominent House.
5. House Frey also has many Houses, such as House Haigh, directly sworn to it. It controls a major trade route between the North and the South, and it is therefore quite rich. Fifth place.
6. House Royce is the greatest of the Arryn bannermen, and it can field thousands of men. It has a strong influence on Gulltown, a major city. Sixth place.
7. House Rowan, probably kings once, rule from Old Oak to the Mander. House Crane is directly sworn to it, and possibly House Oakheart as well. Not only is the northern Reach very fertile, one can reach most of the South from it. Seventh place.
8. House Lefford controls the Golden Tooth, which is presumably full of gold, and the River Road, an important trade route. Though House Reyne was undoubtedly richer, House Reyne is gone and Castamere flooded, so House Lefford takes eighth place.
9. House Yronwood controls the Boneway, a significant trade route, and it has at least one House (House Wyl) sworn to it. But Dorne is the weakest of the 7K, so House Yronwood is ninth.
10. House Grafton may not be very powerful, but it is still the ruler of the fourth-largest city in Westeros, and so it should be pretty rich. Tenth place.

@OP: Your list seems quite...random. Royce over Hightower? Yronwood over Frey? I would like some justifications.

#5 Pod The Impaler

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:59 PM

Here is my list as of ADWD's end:


 

1 - Hightower  - Oldtown is a huge prize, the house is large and rich, and thus far they have been fairly untouched by the fighting

2 - Frey - unfortunately, for now they dominate the Riverlands

3 - Bolton - unfortunately for now they have hegemony of the North; more powerful than the Freys, but their enemies are also not as subdued

4 - Royce - Vale's second most powerful house, with 2 notable branches and prominent supporters

5 - Yronwood - 2nd strongest Dornish house, with few losses thus far

6 - Tarly - Mostly this is due to Randyll's position as Mace Tyrell's iron fist

7 - Corbray - Both Lyn and Lyonel are powerful in their own right

8 - Redwyne - strongest naval house under the Iron Throne, until they meet the Ironborn in battle

9 - Dayne - 3rd strongest Dornish house, with 2 strong branches (but a boy lord for one, and a headcase leading the other)

10 - Harlaw - 2nd strongest Ironborn house; there's the Read, but also his kinfolk are doing well. 

 

I'm not going to do all the others.

 

Note: Like many seem to, I consider House Baelish the current Great House of the Vale. House Arryn is essentially its vassal or puppet now.


Edited by Pod The Impaler, 02 August 2014 - 12:55 AM.


#6 Nittanian

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

3. House Manderly is rich, folks. It has a quite large city under its control, and Lord Wyman influences much of the North, from Moat Cailin to Widow's Watch. Ramsgate is directly sworn to it. Add to that the silver mines, and you have a very powerful House. Third place.


Wyman states he has silver in his vaults, but is it stated the Manderlys have silver mines?

#7 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:25 PM

Top group: Hightower, Redwyne, Manderly in no specific order. They've got the income for it.

 

Second Tier: Bolton, Frey, Royce, Harlaw, Reyne, Mallister, Yronwood, Rowan, Waynwood, Dayne, Oakheart, Dustin, Rhyswell, Caron, Corbray, a couple more. Mostly in the North, the Riverlands and the Vale. In the Westerlands, Tywin centralized too much, and the houses further down south are smaller on average.

 

Third tier: Marbrand, Bracken, Blackwood, Lefford, Karstark, Umber, Mormont, Brax, Florent, Dondarrion, most others.



#8 James Arryn

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:40 PM

Hightower IMO stands leagues above the rest. It might be greater than some Great Houses if it really tried.

#9 Dain Storm

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:42 PM

Since when was Dayne a poweful Dornish house? They're old, but Arianne thinks that only the Fowlers can rival the Yronwoods. She even considers Uller before Dayne.

#10 The Holy Goat

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:12 PM

1, House Hightower.

2, House Bolton.

3, House Manderly.

4, House Frey.

5, House Royce.

6, House Redwyne.

7, House Rowan.

8, House Tarly.

9, House Oakheart.

10, House Grafton.

11, House Vance. (all branches)

12, House Flint (all branches)



#11 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:14 PM

Per region:
North
1. House Manderly is rich, folks. It has a quite large city under its control, and Lord Wyman influences much of the North, from Moat Cailin to Widow's Watch. Ramsgate is directly sworn to it. Add to that the silver mines, and you have a very powerful House. First place.
2. Roose commands some 4000 men, and House Bolton has to be powerful for them to have opposed the Starks for millennia, so second place.
3. House Dustin refused to send many soldiers for Robb during the Wot5K, so the fact that we don't see any soldiers from Barrowton does not suggest House Dustin is weak. And Barrowton is the largest town in the North, so House Dustin is a major economic and military power.

Iron Islands
1. Every single Ironborn says Harlaw is the richest island. Well, guess who rules Harlaw: House Harlaw.
2. Great Wyk is the largest island and therefore the second richest. Who rules Great Wyk? House Goodbrother, one of the greatest Houses of the Iron Islands, does.
3. Orkmont is the third largest, and the fact that an Orkmont House (House Hoare) came to rule the Iron Islands indicates that Orkmont is a pretty rich island, and that its rulers, House Orkwood, is a pretty powerful House.

Riverlands
1.House Frey also has many Houses, such as House Haigh, directly sworn to it. It controls a major trade route between the North and the South, and it is therefore quite rich.
2. House Mallister has a fleet, aaa good castle, and a large army. It is constantly called one of the most prominent Houses sworn to Riverrun, so second place.
3. In AGOT, House Blackwood was more powerful than House Bracken (a result of the Blackfyre Rebellions, IMO) so third place. Houses Blackwood and Bracken seem to be the more powerful Houses in the Riverlands. In AGOT House Whent was declining but in 281 House Whent would have been stronger than House Blackwood or even House Mallister.

Vale
1. House Royce is the greatest of the Arryn bannermen, and it can field thousands of men. It has a strong influence on Gulltown, a major city.
2. House Grafton is the ruler of the fourth-largest city in Westeros, and so it should be pretty rich.
3. House Waynwood is another prominent Vale House. Lady Waynwood is the second strongest of the LDs, and since most of the powerful Vale lords are with Yohn Royce as a LD House Waynwood is probably the third most powerful Vale House.

Westerlands
(I'm omitting the Reynes because they are extinct. If they were not they would be first place.)
1. House Lefford controls the Golden Tooth, which is presumably full of gold, and the River Road, an important trade route.
2. House Crakehall must be able to field many men if they were able to defeat invasions from the Reach multiple times. They also control a major trade route, the Ocean Road, that connects two very wealthy regions: the Westerlands and the Reach.
3. House Reyne was once the top dog in the northern Westerlands, but now House Marbrand is. House Marbrand presumably has gold mines in its lands (Pendric Hills) and is probably quite rich.

Reach
1. House Hightower is a de facto Great House. It is ridiculously rich from the Oldtown trade, most Houses south of Brightwater Keep is sworn to it, and it can field thrice more men than any other Tyrell bannermen. Since House Tyrell can field the most soldiers it is obvious House Hightower is the strongest non-Great House in Westeros. Also, it has a major ally-the Citadel. House Hightower is probably stronger than House Martell, if not militarily, then economically.
2.House Redwyne has a fleet as large as the Iron Fleet, and the Arbor seems quite fertile.
3.House Rowan, probably kings once, rule from Old Oak to the Mander. House Crane is directly sworn to it, and possibly House Oakheart as well. Not only is the northern Reach very fertile, one can reach most of the South from it.

Crownlands
1. Duskendale is a major town and a port as well. So House Rykker must be a quite powerful House.
2. House Velaryon would have once been in the top ten, but it suffered greatly in the DotD and never recovered. High Tide was burned, Spicetown was sacked and never rebuilt, and much of its fleet was destroyed. But still, House Velaryon is a major power in the Crownlands with a large fleet of perhaps 30 ships or so (although once the Velaryon fleet matched the Iron Fleet itself) and a decent army.
3. House Rosby has extensive and fertile lands and great wealth. It is also a major player in the Game of Thrones thanks to its location.

Stormlands
1. The Dornish Marches are quite big, and Nightsong a formidable castle. House Dondarrion and all of the Marches are sworn to House Caron. A hundred years ago, House Caron could directly field 4000 men-as large as the entire Frey army, including Frey bannermen- and one of their bannermen, House Dondarrion, could field 1000. So apparently, House Caron can summon something like 8000 men. Quite surprising for a not prominent House.
2. House Selmy is not actually directly sworn to House Baratheon. House Selmy is sworn to House Caron of Nightsong. But House Selmy rules the most fertile region in the Stormlands (heck, the castle is HARVEST Hall) and all the Marcher lords seem to command thousands of men, so House Selmy is second.
3. Since House Errol is the only Kingswood House mentioned as principal Bararatheon bannermen, it is likely that House Errol is the strongest House of the northern Stormlands. But the only things in the northern Stormlands are trees and trees and trees, so doesn't mean much.

Dorne
1. House Yronwood was once the Royal House of half of Dorne and is still the Warden of the Boneway, with House Wyl sworn to it. The Boneway is the major gate to Dorne (the Prince's Pass has no road) so House Yronwood commands a trade route as well.
2. House Fowler commands the Prince's Pass, with House Manwoody sworn to it. As House Fowler is a rival to House Yronwood, they probably have similar strength.
3. House Allyrion's seat Godsgrace is bordered by three rivers: the Vaith, the Scourge, and the Greenblood. Therefore the Allyrion lands are probably highly fertile and House Allyrion is probably one of the richer Dornish Houses.

Edited by Game Of Thrones, 31 July 2014 - 03:16 PM.


#12 Zoravar Singh

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:28 PM

My list-

1) Hightower

2) Lannister of Lannisport

3)Royce of Runestone=Yronwood=Redwyne

4)Manderly=Grafton

5)Frey

(Bolton is now a great House)

Honourable mentions- House Caron (now defunct), Crakehall, Velayron, Harlaw of Ten Towers


Edited by Zoravar Singh, 31 July 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#13 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:30 PM

Honourable mentions- House Caron (now defunct), Crakehall, Velayron, Harlaw of Ten Towers


Have you forgotten Roland Storm? That guy needs some love...

#14 The Bittersteel

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:37 PM

Some great lists here the only major minor House I can see that is missing from every list is House Payne, who are one of the foremost Houses of the Westerlands.

 

My top three would be:

 

1. Hightower

 

2. Royce (particularly right now in the series)

 

3. Manderly


Edited by The Bittersteel, 31 July 2014 - 04:38 PM.


#15 JoeyBanana

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:07 PM

I wonder how the Reynes (before their annihilation obviously) would rank here?

 

But yeah, Hightower is definitely the most powerful of all the smaller Houses. Royce, Tarly, Manderly, Frey, Yronwood, Harlaw, Redwyne after that in no particular order. I don't know about Blackwood, Rowan, Mallister, Harlaw, but they're certainly no pushovers.


Edited by JoeyBanana, 31 July 2014 - 05:08 PM.


#16 Otho Bracken

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:10 PM

Bracken belongs above Blackwood, please.



#17 Guardian of the Neck

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:22 PM

I wonder how the Reynes (before their annihilation obviously) would rank here?


I would put them a bit weaker than the Hightowers,but stronger than anyone else

#18 Dain Storm

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:26 PM

Have you forgotten Roland Storm? That guy needs some love...


He might be dead.

#19 Blackfyre Gateau

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:33 PM

At the outset of the series:

 

North: Manderlys (Wealth + rounded military and geo-political importance)

 

Riverlands: Freys (Wealth and strategic vantage point) 

 

The Vale: Royce

 

Westerlands: Do the cadet branch in Lannisport count?

 

The Reach: Hightower - Wealth and historic stature; Redwyne - Huge navy and sizeable army; House Mathis - Seem to be the right hand of the Tyrells;

 

Stormlands: Really not sure.

 

Iron Islands - Can't remember, don't really care either.

 

Dorne - Yronwoods;

 

Crownlands - Velaryon (historic stature + navy); Rosby;



#20 Sir Lee knot

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:46 PM

Why no one name House Magnar of Skagos?

 

Didn't it take the entire north a long and bloody war to to put their rebellion down?

 

Also, apparently the Neck under house Reed was it's own Kingdom for thousands of years. Maybe these guys are only powerful when given home field advantage. Still deserve a mention though.