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Re Reading Storm of Swords


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#1 RSMITTY7640

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:38 AM

The part with Stannis and the leech burning. He hesitated before throwing the leach for Robb Stark. I think maybe he didn't really want Robb to die maybe cause he respected Ned. IDK I just thought it was weird he hesitated on it

#2 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:41 AM

The accepted theory is that Stannis realized that Robb's treason was lesser than Balon or Joff's treason. Robb just tried to save his dad and was crowned by his lords, while Balon actively took the Crown and Joff is an abomination.

Edited by Game Of Thrones, 01 August 2014 - 01:47 AM.


#3 Marcus Agrippa

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:45 AM

The part with Stannis and the leech burning. He hesitated before throwing the leach for Robb Stark. I think maybe he didn't really want Robb to die maybe cause he respected Ned. IDK I just thought it was weird he hesitated on it

The Stag and Starks have always been friends... Well I think in the first dance they were opposing each other but I doubt they fought in a battle.



#4 JonisHenryTudor

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:24 AM

Stannis is a hard ass, plain and simple. But he also recognizes honor and duty, at least he seems to. He respected Ned, even though they were not friends. One can only presume that Stannis felt slightly uneasy about Robb's position. 

 

I am busy and lazy tonight....but in aCoK beginning on 473 it seems that Stannis, as hard as he is, does recognize that Ned was a good man. His "promises" to Cat, I think, imply that he had enough respect for Ned to see Cat's daughters returned and justice for Ned. 

 

It isn't much, but there is enough respect there that killing Robb is not as clear cut as Renly, the Lannisters, etc. 



#5 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:08 AM

Stannis is a hard ass, plain and simple. But he also recognizes honor and duty, at least he seems to. He respected Ned, even though they were not friends. One can only presume that Stannis felt slightly uneasy about Robb's position. 
 
I am busy and lazy tonight....but in aCoK beginning on 473 it seems that Stannis, as hard as he is, does recognize that Ned was a good man. His "promises" to Cat, I think, imply that he had enough respect for Ned to see Cat's daughters returned and justice for Ned. 
 
It isn't much, but there is enough respect there that killing Robb is not as clear cut as Renly, the Lannisters, etc. 

Doesn't Cat realise there is a subtle threat involved when Stannis mentions her daughters though? Don't have the books to quote from atm but I do seem to recall something like that

#6 JonisHenryTudor

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:20 AM

Doesn't Cat realise there is a subtle threat involved when Stannis mentions her daughters though? Don't have the books to quote from atm but I do seem to recall something like that

"If your children are found when I take the city, they shall be sent to you" Alive or dead, his tone implied. 

 

It could be taken as a threat. But it seems that Stannis is simply stating that he cannot promise their safety in the battle, and if they are found they will be returned regardless of their condition. 



#7 JoeyBanana

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:22 AM

The two others are his clear-cut enemies whereas Robb may only become one in the future. Then there are the numerous ties between their families aswell, a common enemy and a past alliance.

 

Despite his reluctance, i don't think he actually cares about Robb's and Catelyn's fate. Renly's death had the biggest impact on him of what we've seen so far and he got over that fairly quickly, too.


Edited by JoeyBanana, 01 August 2014 - 04:23 AM.


#8 RSMITTY7640

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

To me after reading it again it comes off that maybe Stannis doesn't want to kill Robb but possibly Mel is saying there is no other way. If that makes sense

#9 FerociousVeldtRoarer

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 02:58 PM

Come on. It's not as if Stannis is fighting a huge internal battle with himself.
 

The last was in the king’s hand. This one he studied a moment as it writhed between his fingers. “The usurper,” he said at last. “Robb Stark.” And he threw it on the flames.

 

That brief pause could've meant everything and nothing. We know already that there was no qualitative difference between those nasty traitors in the Rightful King's mind:
 

“You presume too much, Lady Stark. I am the rightful king, and your son no less a traitor than my brother here. His day will come as well.”

 

The leeches ceremony was just that day. 



#10 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

What I have always found weird, is why Stannis would consider Joffrey to be guilty of treason. Joffrey declaring Stannis a traitor is totally normal. He was raised believing that Robert was his father, and he died believing that Robert was his father. Then suddenly, his uncle is saying he's born out of incest, out of no where (from Joff's point of view), and then starts calling himself the true king.

 

I am in no way defending Joffrey's actions, but Stannis should realise that Joffrey has every right to see his actions as treason, and Stannis should be blaming Cersei, not Joffrey. Forcing Cersei to confess that Joff was born out of incest would effectively dethrone Joffrey. Joff's death would not be necessary.



#11 RSMITTY7640

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 11:46 PM

What I have always found weird, is why Stannis would consider Joffrey to be guilty of treason. Joffrey declaring Stannis a traitor is totally normal. He was raised believing that Robert was his father, and he died believing that Robert was his father. Then suddenly, his uncle is saying he's born out of incest, out of no where (from Joff's point of view), and then starts calling himself the true king.

 

I am in no way defending Joffrey's actions, but Stannis should realise that Joffrey has every right to see his actions as treason, and Stannis should be blaming Cersei, not Joffrey. Forcing Cersei to confess that Joff was born out of incest would effectively dethrone Joffrey. Joff's death would not be necessary.

I actually think he knows he isnt Roberts son maybe he doesnt think he is an insest baby but he has to have an idea



#12 Minstral

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:09 AM

I actually think he knows he isnt Roberts son maybe he doesnt think he is an insest baby but he has to have an idea

 

Just as he had a feeling that terror in his subjects was a good thing. When he responded with violence against petitioners complaining about the lack of food and its price he gave them "leave to eat their dead". He does not have a firm grasp on reality nor is he smart. However, he is prideful. He may not have been upset about the death of his father, but he still holds the house of Baratheon in just the same regard as he does house Lannister which can be seen in his quartered standard; both the Lion and Stag as equals. Moreover, if he didn't have a high regard toward the idea of being a natural son of the house Baratheon then he wouldn't have tried to throw defiance in Tywin's face like he did in Storm. So no, all hints point to him considering himself a very real Baratheon/Lannister hybrid, a half Lion and half Stag beast, which is just as much of an abomination as the boy himself.



#13 The Drunkard

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:21 AM

The part with Stannis and the leech burning. He hesitated before throwing the leach for Robb Stark. I think maybe he didn't really want Robb to die maybe cause he respected Ned. IDK I just thought it was weird he hesitated on it

 

Probably going a bit far, Robb's still trying to take the northern half of the kingdom and "conquer the Riverlands". It's just, in Robb's case, Stannis doesn't have any reason to want him dead other than his independence war. He thinks Balon shouldn't have been pardoned originally, and now he's repeating his crime, so there's no hesitation. He considers Joffrey an "abomination" and he's had experience with his nature, so there's no hesitation. But he has no issue with Robb other than his kingship.

 

What I have always found weird, is why Stannis would consider Joffrey to be guilty of treason. Joffrey declaring Stannis a traitor is totally normal. He was raised believing that Robert was his father, and he died believing that Robert was his father. Then suddenly, his uncle is saying he's born out of incest, out of no where (from Joff's point of view), and then starts calling himself the true king.

 

I am in no way defending Joffrey's actions, but Stannis should realise that Joffrey has every right to see his actions as treason, and Stannis should be blaming Cersei, not Joffrey. Forcing Cersei to confess that Joff was born out of incest would effectively dethrone Joffrey. Joff's death would not be necessary.

 

Does Stannis ever accuse Joffrey of treason, specifically? He doesn't seem to take Joffrey's mindset into account if I recall correctly. It's just, he's an abomination, he's evil, he's on my throne, he's going down.



#14 James Arryn

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:03 AM

Stannis is a hard ass, plain and simple. But he also recognizes honor and duty, at least he seems to. He respected Ned, even though they were not friends. One can only presume that Stannis felt slightly uneasy about Robb's position. 
 
I am busy and lazy tonight....but in aCoK beginning on 473 it seems that Stannis, as hard as he is, does recognize that Ned was a good man. His "promises" to Cat, I think, imply that he had enough respect for Ned to see Cat's daughters returned and justice for Ned. 
 
It isn't much, but there is enough respect there that killing Robb is not as clear cut as Renly, the Lannisters, etc.


Stannis is the man who literally turns an offer of condolence to Cat over Ned's death into a harangue on how Ned didn't do enough for him...mid condolence!

#15 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:57 AM

I actually think he knows he isnt Roberts son maybe he doesnt think he is an insest baby but he has to have an idea

Nope, he still idolises Robert, even if he had reason to suspect, he would rationalise to himself that he is Robert's son.

#16 Lost Melnibonean

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:03 AM

The part with Stannis and the leech burning. He hesitated before throwing the leach for Robb Stark. I think maybe he didn't really want Robb to die maybe cause he respected Ned. IDK I just thought it was weird he hesitated on it

You should consider participating in this thread...

http://asoiaf.wester...ticed-that-v-6/

#17 Robb_Warged

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:34 AM

Robb and Stannis could have been an awesome force