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Old gods and Cat


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30 replies to this topic

#1 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:08 AM

Is it just a feeling Cat has when she goes to the godswood or is there something? She does not feel welcome and eyes follow her judging or something , so I wonder, is it bloodraven or Bran(looking in the past), is it because of her futur relation with the red god , do one of them saw something she does in the futur, or is it just her because of her fear and ignorance of the northern ways, I mean, its been 15 years

I'm on a reread of agot trying to see what Grrm has hidden there :P paying much attention to sentence written in Italic like that part Bran thinks hes the only one to know a secret way (he think even Luwin does not know) to the inner wall from the south door, 3 story up and all the way around winterfell in a tunnel then you arrive at the north gate AT GROUND LEVEL (the part in italic) I dont know what to do of it yet so thats for another time.

#2 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:18 AM

First of all, she has no later relation with the red religion. other than that she was resurrected by a man who followed him, she's shown no particular devotion or interest to it.



#3 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:22 AM

It is not "fear" or "ignorance" of northern ways. She is very much aware of the north and knows it quite well. She is just at heart a southern woman and the concept of the old gods and a godswood and a heart tree are just things that would always be strange to her. By the end of aGoT after Ned is dead she is questioning what she even believes those days. Her character arc has a lot to do with how she balances between the two identities and to introduce her to us GRRM shows a southern woman out of place in the north and later shows how strong she's become from the northern influence while travelling through the war-torn south. If you recall, her last words were a plea to both the Old Gods and New, and when she is LS she is admiring Robb's crown, something that has a distinct northern/first men aesthetic.



#4 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:22 AM

Well that was the part i was talking about, the resurection from the red god. Zombies does not seem to be in on planetos.

On my phone i dont know how to make spoiler tags , i know its not spoiler for most but i was trying to hide most possible the resurection thing.

Edited by YorEmixam, 01 August 2014 - 09:10 AM.


#5 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:30 AM

spoiler tags work like this:

 

[ spoiler ]   [ /spoiler ]  but don't put the space between the brackets and the word. I'm not sure of the full policy on this, but I think you're fine mentioning her resurrection without the tag.

 

Now, as for the red religion, I know that she was resurrected by a force that is associated with R'hllor but I don't think that automatically means she is associated with him. I am of the firm stance that there is no "him." Gods don't exist in this world, only magic and people's interpretation and explanation of it.

 

If you'll refer to my signature, I don't consider Lady Stoneheart a zombie. Certainly, she is quite decomposed after the circumstances of her body, but she is not mindless or what most would associate with "zombie." I consider her a revenant, an entity resurrected to terrify the living (Freys.)

 

I truly apologize if I'm coming off too defensive. I'm very big on Lady Stoneheart and Cat, so I'm just trying to give the best input about this subject as I can. :cheers:



#6 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:31 AM

So you don't think someone on the other side of those weirwood eyes was really making her feel unconfortable? Maybe just bran watching her because he miss her, making her feel weird not on purpose.

#7 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:35 AM

Lol i'm the opposite of you, I hated her since the begining. Poor Jon.. But I share your tough about no god only magic, and i would precise blood magic.

#8 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:43 AM

I've loved her and never stopped loving her and loved her even more on rereads. She is my Lady. :P

 

Now, as for the Old Gods looking at her, in short I don't think so. It's certainly possible from what we know of later but I think it's just there to set up her character and arc. I used to think something along those lines but the first explanation is more important to me when looking at her character, so I prefer it.

 

(btw, if you really want someone to blame for "Poor Jon" I'd start with Ned, and try to find the thread "the Cat-Ned-Jon Debacle" by butterbumps! It might give you a different look at the situtation. I can't link it or paste it right now.)



#9 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:53 AM

Yeah i get why blaming Ned for keeping him in her face for the world to see :P but Cat making Jon feel like a piece of **** is for me like blaming someone for being born redhead, dwarf, bastard.. I mean the guy was born and someone hates him for it.He had no word in the condition of his birth. Still Cat is really human, but a human i would hate :P

Ps: derivation from the thread but i like that talk and i will look for butterbumps thread thanks!

#10 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:02 AM

Yeah unless you want this to turn into a Cat/Jon flame war I'd suggest keeping that out. It's a subject that is very divisive as you'll see but since that's not what you wanted to talk about...



#11 PrinceHenryris

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:50 AM

Cat has nothing to do with the old gods.

#12 JoeyBanana

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:07 AM

I don't think it has any particular meaning.

 

She believes in the Seven and it's only natural to be uncomfortable and uneasy around symbols/at the place of another faith. It's her own superstition, really. Although the fact that the magic behind it is real, won't help at all, i suppose.



#13 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:09 AM

The eyes were following her (seems to) now that we know theres someone behind it i was wondering if there was something for him to keep an eye on her.

#14 Loge

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:09 AM

Cat has a lot to do with the Starks getting involved in southron politics, the downfall that resulted from it, and the lack of a viable defines against the Others. Most of it isn't her doing, really (though she talked Ned into going south), but her betrothal to Brandon as part of Rickard Stark's "southron ambitions" is one of the things that started the whole mess. Usually people ascribe it all to Aerys's madness and both Rhaegar's and Brandon's recklessness but from what Barbrey Dustin tells Theon in ADWD there was already an alliance forming. With Stark kids betrothed to Tully and Baratheon and Ned being fostered by Arryn, we have the Starks allied with three other big Houses. Looks somewhat suspect to me. 



#15 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:11 AM

Loge , wow thanks never though about those marriage pact that way..Thanks!

#16 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:47 AM

Let's see, there's two, maybe three, instances only where I think we can say for certain the "Old Gods" were watching.

 

1. Bran reaches out to Eddard and Eddard notices something. (From Bran's own POV)

2. Bran reaches out to Theon; Theon notices (Theon's POV)

3. In spoilers because it's from Winds

Spoiler

 

So it's definitely possible some Greenseer was watching Catelyn, like Bloodraven, but if the Weirnet is always on I'm not sure that's anything special... kind of like thinking that someone in the camera is watching. lol

 

and those who are familiar with me should know that I'm ready to fly into Catelyn defense mode at a mere mention of her name. :D So I'll keep it short. Yes, she did convince Ned to go south but for one, he is his own person. It was ultimately his choice. She also begged him to stay after Bran's fall, something that I'm sure Robert would've forgave if Ned had listened. Comatose, possibly dying son is the perfect excuse to decline the job. And Catelyn definitely has 'something' to do with the Old Gods. She is mostly a southern woman but remember, she warned Robb of keeping Greywind away because she had a gut feeling that the Olds Gods or something had sent them.



#17 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:47 AM

Crackpot, watch out here it goes:
Could Aerys suspect this too and send Raeghar to kidnap Lyanna as an hostage? I think it could fit the man.

#18 LordStoneheart

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:51 AM

The theory goes that the Harrenhal tourney was actually a cover-up staged by Rhaegar to meet with the other lords and remove Aerys, but the plot was ruined by Varys. I think the Lyanna thing was most likely an accident but that could also be true.



#19 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:52 AM

Yeah after all a thousand eyes and one should be able to look everywhere everytime :P not looking at her in particular.I think i saw something where there was not, I was wondering what was BR problem with cat lol

#20 YorEmixam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:55 AM

Or maybe a double plot to seek untrusty lord, I cant see how raeghar would go "yeahh daddy you should retire and give me your throne, i got back up man"