Jump to content


Photo

Varys removed Barry from the KG but didn't direct him to Aegon, why ?


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,668 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:37 AM

 

"Was it Joffrey's wish to dismiss Ser Barristan Selmy from his Kingsguard too?"

Cersei sighed. 

"Joff wanted someone to blame for Robert's death. Varys suggested Ser Barristan. 

 

So Varys influences Joff to dismiss Barristan, As we know Varys wants Aegon (of fAegon) to take the throne, and having Barristan on Aegon's side would be huge plus for Aegon. But Barristan, who did not know Aegon was alive went out to seek Dany. Varys with his network of spies could have easily directed Barristan to the GC and have Barristan meet Aegon and join him but didn't.

 

So the question is why did Varys miss an opprotunity ?



#2 Game Of Thrones

Game Of Thrones

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,852 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:39 AM

I've no idea.



#3 Psifonian

Psifonian

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:41 AM

Barristan fought against the Blackfyres in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Maybe Varys thought Barristan wouldn't fall for an Aegon pretender, especially as no one could prove that he was indeed Rhaegar's son.



#4 dbunting

dbunting

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 393 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

Thoughts on this.

Maybe Varys thought Selmy would retire, or be killed? I thought I remembered that they were actually going to kill Selmy but wanted to do the show in front of everyone so they wouldn't be outraged.


Maybe Varys thought Selmy would not believe fAegon, and no one would doubt Selmy if he said fAegon was a fake?

#5 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,668 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

Thoughts on this.

Maybe Varys thought Selmy would retire, or be killed? I thought I remembered that they were actually going to kill Selmy but wanted to do the show in front of everyone so they wouldn't be outraged.


Maybe Varys thought Selmy would not believe fAegon, and no one would doubt Selmy if he said fAegon was a fake?

 

So should we consider this more circumstancial evidence that Aegon is fake then ?



#6 Long Live The Onion King

Long Live The Onion King

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 55 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:43 AM

Dany needed him more? Aegon was an unknown publicly. Dany had surfaced with 3 dragons and loads of enemies.


Edited by Long Live The Onion King, 01 August 2014 - 11:44 AM.


#7 BearQueen87

BearQueen87

    And who would ever dare to love a dragon?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,498 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:44 AM

Barristan fought against the Blackfyres in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Maybe Varys thought Barristan wouldn't fall for an Aegon pretender, especially as no one could prove that he was indeed Rhaegar's son.

 

I think this is probably the best answer. I think Selmy, who probably doesn't trust the Spider much anyway, would be very suspicious of Young Griff, and he would recognize Griff (JonCon) right off the bat, add in that he knows how the Golden Company was founded and its history and I'd say Barristan would have a lot of questions. They send him to Dany because she is without question Aerys' daughter and he'll serve her without wondering if she's really a Targaryen


Edited by BearQueen87, 01 August 2014 - 11:45 AM.


#8 LadyoftheNorth72

LadyoftheNorth72

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,389 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:52 AM

So all these years, they've gone to ridiculous lengths keeping Aegon secret (and at the time of Barristan's dismissal they are nowhere near ready for his unveiling).

Now Varys should go to a man who seamlessly switched sides to Robert, and stood ready to pledge fealty to Robert's successor, and say "hey, I realize these people really want all Targs dead, but guess what, we've got a secret one hidden in Essos and we'd love to have you on board!"???

Right.

There was no way for Varys to know what an enemy of Barristan Joff would make, so no way to approach him before his dismissal. And no one could find him to make the offer afterward. Even if Varys did know where Barristan was hiding, how could he be certain that the disgraced knight wouldn't use the information to regain his place?

#9 Ser Eric

Ser Eric

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,552 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

Probably because Barristan was sensible and Varys plan (as we know) has been to get rid of people too sensible to be with Cersie and stop her from ruining things.

 

I doubt it has anything to do with Aegon. Barristan wasn't even at KL when Aegon died. He would have no clue on that matter.



#10 Lady Blizzardborn

Lady Blizzardborn

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,521 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:03 PM

Aegon has JonCon, a septa, a half-maester, and a sparring partner.

 

Dany has Jorah and some Dothraki.  I think it's pretty obvious that Dany needs a competent adviser who can tell her the (relatively) current climate of things in Westeros.  Jorah has been in exile five years at the beginning of the series.  Barry is fresh.  Plus Barry probably paid more attention in history class than Jorah did.  Having a man such as Barristan Selmy on her side lends legitimacy to Dany's claim once she gets to Westeros.  If Selmy thinks she can rule, it might sway some people.



#11 Tourney Knight

Tourney Knight

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:15 PM

I agree with the sentiment that because Barristan had fought against the Blackfyres, he would be reluctant to join forces with the Golden Company.  Also with the fact that it is difficult to know if that is the real Aegon or not, so he would have rather gone with someone who in his view had the better claim to the throne.



#12 The Sullen Sellsword

The Sullen Sellsword

    Drowned Man

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,437 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:19 PM

Because Daenerys's first strike on Westeros also needs to be effective and believable, hence why she also needs competent supporters. (But not too much)



#13 Lonin

Lonin

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 744 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

It's a good question. However, I am not sure it was Varys who made the decision. It was Illyrio who sent Barristan and Belwas to Dany. I am not sure who is the boss of the Varys and Illyrio duo.

#14 kiasyd

kiasyd

    Ranger

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 920 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:43 PM

Assuming that Varys and Ilyrio are playing 100% in the same team, sending him to Dany instead made more sense. One reason is that (f)Aegon was still underground at the time Selmy was dismissed, and afterwards they were planning to join (f)Aegon and Dany, remember? By their account eventually Selmy would be with (f)Aegon at a more auspicious time.



#15 Lemorecake

Lemorecake

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 21 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:47 PM

I don´t think it was varys intention to remove selmy, not to use him for further plots.

If he hadn´t managed to escape,  he would sit in a tower or had lost his head.



#16 BrianBoru

BrianBoru

    Commoner

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 19 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:59 PM

Aegon has JonCon, a septa, a half-maester, and a sparring partner.
 
Dany has Jorah and some Dothraki.  I think it's pretty obvious that Dany needs a competent adviser who can tell her the (relatively) current climate of things in Westeros.  Jorah has been in exile five years at the beginning of the series.  Barry is fresh.  Plus Barry probably paid more attention in history class than Jorah did.  Having a man such as Barristan Selmy on her side lends legitimacy to Dany's claim once she gets to Westeros.  If Selmy thinks she can rule, it might sway some people.

This.
Plus, Varys has been running Jorah as a spy for Robert Baratheon against Dany, so Varys knows (or knew, at the time) that Jorah can't be trusted with a Targ. Unless you want to speculate that Varys planted Jorah with Dany knowing he'd fall for her and switch allegiance? I wouldn't go that far.

#17 Whitering

Whitering

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,437 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:01 PM

If anyone has already said it, Barristan showing up with a kid that at least looks Targaryean might have clued people in a little too early?



#18 Winterfell is Burning

Winterfell is Burning

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,592 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:21 PM

It's simple: Varys can't know for sure how Barristan will react to seeing Aegon. Maybe he'll suspect foulplay. Going to Dany give her a reliable bodyguard and adviser and most importantly someone to verify Jon Connington's identity when the Griffs go meet her.



#19 JustAnObsessedFan

JustAnObsessedFan

    Sellsword

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:39 PM

Logic simply tells that Varys didn't need Barristan for Aegon. Infact, I'd say Varys would've probably thought Barristan would retire given his age/the state of the realm. I didn't think Barristan would end up finding Dany. A welcome twist! 



#20 fuelpagan_tw

fuelpagan_tw

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 56 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:50 PM

Barristan was for Aegon. Strong Belwas and Barristan were supposed to return to Pentos with Dany and her Dragons. Not stay with her and take over Slavers Bay. 

 

Varys couldn't risk someone noticing Barristan anywhere near Aegon.