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The Ice Dragon


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29 replies to this topic

#1 willofDorne

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:46 AM

Is this story canon now and part of the Ice and Fire universe? Has anyone read it? There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions on whether or not this takes place in the ASOIAF universe. 

 

Here's the VERY RECENT article I just read that seems to be touting this novel as another possible canon source. 

 

http://www.tor.com/b...-the-ice-dragon

 

And here's the Westeros.org wiki http://awoiaf.wester.../The_Ice_Dragon which says it's debatable. 



#2 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:49 AM

No. Not in Planetos. GRRM said so, I believe. People say that it's in Planetos so more people will buy the book. That's why it's not in here.

 

It was written in 1980, long before ASOIAF. It was republished in 2007. And I doubt GRRM would allow a children's book to be part of his, well, let's say mature world.


Edited by Game Of Thrones, 01 August 2014 - 11:52 AM.


#3 The Snark of Winterfell

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

I never read it but it was written well before GoT.  I saw the publisher sources used in the wiki to say it's debatable, it seemed more like a publisher's ploy to sell more than anything authoritative.  Looking around the internet, I could not find anything concerning the houses we are familiar with.  So I don't think it is by any means canon and I don't believe it is set in the same world, but just a kid's story.



#4 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:00 PM

And why would dragons come from the north? In Planetos dragons like the south.


Edited by Game Of Thrones, 01 August 2014 - 12:00 PM.


#5 willofDorne

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:02 PM

Well... read the official description here: 

 

http://www.amazon.co...e dragon&dpPl=1

 

In GRRM's defense, I think it's rather clever to respect an earlier work you did and include it as a long lost tale in a later work.


Edited by willofDorne, 01 August 2014 - 12:04 PM.


#6 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:03 PM

As I said, a publisher's ploy. This is as official as you're gonna get.



#7 theBastardofCasterlyRock

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

Well... read the official description here: 

 

http://www.amazon.co...e dragon&dpPl=1

 

In GRRM's defense, I think it's rather clever to respect an earlier work you did and include it as a long lost tale in a later work.

Yeah, I know what it says, but I'm going to agree with Game of Thrones on this one and call it a publisher's ploy. :dunno:



#8 fuelpagan_tw

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:18 PM

If you've read the book it has a lot in common with Westeros. There's the Inn of the CrossRoads. The girls uncle is one of the Targaryen Dragon Riders. I'm not sure it can be used as canon sourcing as far as dates and everything since it was written long before ASoIaF. 

 

I'm sure we are going to see an Ice Dragon eventually in ASoIaF. Jon makes a few references to Ice Dragons when walking around the Wall.



#9 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:22 PM

If you've read the book it has a lot in common with Westeros. There's the Inn of the CrossRoads. The girls uncle is one of the Targaryen Dragon Riders. I'm not sure it can be used as canon sourcing as far as dates and everything since it was written long before ASoIaF. 
 
I'm sure we are going to see an Ice Dragon eventually in ASoIaF. Jon makes a few references to Ice Dragons when walking around the Wall.

Then why do dragons come from the north?

#10 willofDorne

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:22 PM

Well I bought it anyways on Kindle and I can say it doesn't appear to be canon. her brother is a "Dragon Rider" but this story would supposedly take place before Aegon's Landing. So I'd have to believe that people were riding dragons in Westeros in the Age of Heros or something, I guess.. but it doesn't seem to make sense. 



#11 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

Well I bought it anyways on Kindle and I can say it doesn't appear to be canon. her brother is a "Dragon Rider" but this story would supposedly take place before Aegon's Landing. So I'd have to believe that people were riding dragons in Westeros in the Age of Heros or something, I guess.. but it doesn't seem to make sense. 

Yeah, it inspired ASOIAF but it's not canon.

#12 Crazy Cat Lady in Training

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

I have the book. On the jacket it says that it's set in the same world as ASOIAF, and Martin's website says the same thing:

 

 

http://www.georgerrm...the-ice-dragon/


Edited by Crazy Cat Lady in Training, 01 August 2014 - 12:31 PM.


#13 Game Of Thrones

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:36 PM

I have the book. On the jacket it says that it's set in the same world as ASOIAF, and Martin's website says the same thing:
 
 
http://www.georgerrm...the-ice-dragon/

If so, it certainly makes zero sense.

#14 Crazy Cat Lady in Training

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:44 PM

If so, it certainly makes zero sense.

Take it up with GRRM, then. I didn't write it. It's his website. I have the book and it says it's set in the same world right on the jacket. 



#15 ChillyPolly

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:47 PM

 And I doubt GRRM would allow a children's book to be part of his, well, let's say mature world.

 

For the record, this is not a children's story.  The original version contained gang rapes and stuff.  But though it has been edited to remove the most flagrant non-kid materials, it is still not a children's story: just a short story that happens to feature a child character (like much of ASOIAF).

 

I do agree with your general point that calling it part of the ASOIAF universe is probably a cynical marketing ploy.  But it is certainly true that calling it a children's book is a cynical marketing ploy. 


Edited by ChillyPolly, 01 August 2014 - 12:51 PM.


#16 RumHam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:52 PM

Is it possible that it's meant to be an in-universe fictional story that is told in Westeros? Not at the time it was written obviously.



#17 ChillyPolly

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:56 PM

Is it possible that it's meant to be an in-universe fictional story that is told in Westeros? Not at the time it was written obviously.

 

If you like.  But what it mostly is is an attempt to sell books.  

 

Should you read it?  Will it contain meaningful clues?  Beats me.  Maybe GRRM will incorporate some of it.  But originally it had little to do with Westeros, except it was a fantasy featuring dragons.  And it was not a children's book.

 

Disclaimer:  I have forgotten many of the details now.  If anyone can point out Westeros connections, feel free to do so. 


Edited by ChillyPolly, 01 August 2014 - 12:57 PM.


#18 HelenaAndTheMachine

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:59 PM

 

For the record, this is not a children's story. 

The current version is a children's story. From George's Not a Blog on June 30th (EDIT: Added in link)

 

My children's book THE ICE DRAGON -- actually an illustrated and edited version of a short story that I wrote back in the 70s -- has been out of print in the US for some time, as a number of my readers have informed me over the past year.


Edited by HelenaAndTheMachine, 01 August 2014 - 01:00 PM.


#19 ChillyPolly

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

The current version is a children's story. 

 

I've read it AND the prior version.  It is NOT a children's story.  It was written for adults.  The rape scenes have been edited out and it is being MARKETED to children.  But it has nothing to offer them.   

 


From George's Not a Blog on June 30th

 

I don't care what his Not-a-Blog says.    He did not write it for children, and it is not a good book for children.  The removal of the explicit rape scenes (from the earlier version) does not make it a children's book.  It merely turns it into an adult fantasy that happens to lack explicit rape scenes.  Everything else is a cynical marketing ploy.



#20 RumHam

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:06 PM

 

If you like.  But what it mostly is is an attempt to sell books.  

 

Should you read it?  Will it contain meaningful clues?  Beats me.  Maybe GRRM will incorporate some of it.  But originally it had little to do with Westeros, except it was a fantasy featuring dragons.  And it was not a children's book.

 

Disclaimer:  I have forgotten many of the details now.  If anyone can point out Westeros connections, feel free to do so. 

 

Well I've never read it, but there is an ice dragon constellation in the Song of Ice and Fire books.

 

http://awoiaf.wester....php/Ice_dragon

 

Apparently Old Nan used to tell stories involving an ice dragon.