"Darksister" is it in the cave with Bloodraven? will a warged Hodor wield it?

[Mithras]

“I have half a mind to take you back to King’s Landing with us,” Lord Rivers said to Egg, “and keep you at court as my ... guest.”

“My father would not take kindly to that.”

“I suppose not. Prince Maekar has a ... prickly ... nature. Perhaps I should send you back to Summerhall.”

Bloodraven considered taking Egg to KL as his hostage to keep Maekar in line. That means things were really sour between them. I don't think Maekar forgot the conflict between him and BR after he was crowned.

[Veltigar]

Given the new info, isn't it more likely that Egg threw BR into the joint, possibly because BR did some illegal things to get Egg on the IT? You know, like trying (perhaps succeeding) to assassinate other candidates or killing a major lord who kept pushing for say Aerion's son or Daeron's daughter. If BR had a vision of Egg's importance or if he thought that only Egg could keep the Realms united, he would be prepared to do some pretty fucked up things I imagine.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Given the new info, isn't it more likely that Egg threw BR into the joint, possibly because BR did some illegal things to get Egg on the IT? You know, like trying (perhaps succeeding) to assassinate other candidates or killing a major lord who kept pushing for say Aerion's son or Daeron's daughter. If BR had a vision of Egg's importance or if he thought that only Egg could keep the Realms united, he would be prepared to do some pretty fucked up things I imagine.

Agreed!

[Bryanfury]

I think maybe GRRM made a mistake and forgot Aemon says Bloodraven was sent to the Wall. Aemon in AFFC doesn't mention Bloodraven when he speaks of the council. Either that or Aemon is misremembering

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I think maybe GRRM made a mistake and forgot Aemon says Bloodraven was sent to the Wall. Aemon in AFFC doesn't mention Bloodraven when he speaks of the council. Either that or Aemon is misremembering

First, there are people checking that sort of thing. So it is unlikely to be a mistake, I'd say.

second, why would Aemon have to mention Bloodraven when speaking of the council. He didn't name any other members of the council..

[Fire Eater]

But from Feast we know that Bloodraven went from the Cells to the Wall...

Except BR led the Great Council meaning he was freed, and I doubt Egg would imprison him after just giving him the power with which to do so by crowning him king, except if BR killed off Aerion's son and Daeron's daughter after Egg was chosen.

Either way, Egg likely would have allowed BR to take Dark Sister with him to the Wall, especially if it was a final request and BR said he would have it back when he died.

[The Mother of The Others]

Hey, people have said this before, but I never like, listened, or whatever: 1) Dany gets back together with Jorah (as the Tyrion plotline sort of almost suggests might happen, since he's weaving his way toward meeting Daenerys and has Jorah in tow); 2) Dany meets Jon, who says "Hey Jorah, here's your dad's sword that he entrusted to me, but I think you're a fine person who deserves to keep the family sword in the family, so go on and take it back why don't you." 3) This leaves Jon with no sword of note. 4) Bloodraven drops in to say hi and pawns off Sister on his distant Targ relative whom he's spied on real hard to know Jon is worthy of fancy steel. 4) Hodor breaks character to demand the sword with a full explanation of why he's the best guy to wield it.

[RumHam]

Quoting is not working due to whatever is happening to the forums, and I sorta suspect a database rollback will erase this anyway but here goes.

Except BR led the Great Council meaning he was freed, and I doubt Egg would imprison him after just giving him the power with which to do so by crowning him king, except if BR killed off Aerion's son and Daeron's daughter after Egg was chosen. Either way, Egg likely would have allowed BR to take Dark Sister with him to the Wall, especially if it was a final request and BR said he would have it back when he died.

What we're suggesting is that he was not freed to lead the Great Council. I think it's more likely that he was only jailed once, after the Great Council. Either by Egg or his Hand or whoever. We know Bloodraven called and presided over the Great Council, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was rooting for Egg to be chosen. Maybe he was one of the people who quietly offered it to Aemon. He probably wouldn't have wanted to risk backing Aerion's son because there was the chance he would turn out to be "Maegor II." But a "lackwit" daughter could be just what he wanted if he felt he could secure his position as her Regent or Hand and basically go back to running the realm like he did for Aenys. Anyway even if he did support Egg's claim that doesn't mean something couldn't have happened afterwards that really pissed Egg off. Maybe Bloodraven slept with his wife, for all we know.Regardless of Egg's feelings towards Bloodraven when he was sent to the wall, I find it hard to imagine that Aegon would send what was probably their last Valyrian steel sword to the Wall. Even with the understanding that it would come back to House Targaryen when Bloodraven died.

[BitsOfBrains]

I can't imagine they let him take it, then again i can't image what possessed them to give it to BR in the first place. With Blackfyre gone Dark Sister is the last tangible visible symbol of Valyria

Also how the hell did they get Dark Sister out of The Gods Eye anyway? Maybe BR warged a giant fish, had it swim down, swallow the sword, then beach itself before it died from internal bleeding and thus got it for himself.

I donno, seems to me that Dark Sister had been lost for a while so house Targaryan had no Valyrian swords (unless they have more?) and thus would be unwilling to let it walk literally to the edge of the world.

It would be waaaayyy too easy for BR to disappear on a ranging and with him the ancestral blade of house Targaryan. We all know how precious the Valyrian swords are to their houses.

People have pointed to Long Claw as evidence that Valyrian swords go to the wall but I would point to it as evidence that they do not.

When he went to the wall Jeor left the sword presumably because that was the custom.

It only came to him in a weird twist of fate and by someone elses decision. There was no mention that he asked for it, only that Maege sent it.

One would think that if taking Valyrian steel to the wall was a thing there would be a stockpile of Valyrian swords in the armory at castle black just from the sheer number of guys who have taken the black over the eons.

We don't have all the info but there seems to be some parallel between what happened to Ned and what happened to BR. A hand attempts to influence succession, ends up in the black cells, In exchange for his life he is told that he can take the black.

Between the time he was imprisoned and the time he confessed his Valyrian sword changed ownership and he never got it back. Political prisoners on their way to the wall are in no position to make demands.

Also if dark sister were still in the red keep when Bob took over one would have to assume he had the sword melted down. Its possible LFs awesome dagger is made from black sister.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Except BR led the Great Council meaning he was freed, and I doubt Egg would imprison him after just giving him the power with which to do so by crowning him king, except if BR killed off Aerion's son and Daeron's daughter after Egg was chosen.

Either way, Egg likely would have allowed BR to take Dark Sister with him to the Wall, especially if it was a final request and BR said he would have it back when he died.

1) we don't know if Bloodraven supported Egg, only that Bloodraven called and presided the council that considered multiple claims

2) that Bloodraven went from jail to the Wall, but was free during the council, suggests that he was imprisoned after the council ended, not before

3) people who are in jail and are send to the Wall usually don't get to make any requests

4) If Aegon was the one to imprison Bloodraven, he would most likely have done so because Bloodraven had done something that had pissed Egg off. Making Egg even less likely to grant any request Bloodraven might have had

[Mithras]

Perhaps Bloodraven didnot support Egg at all. Is there anything suggesting that he did?

“Bloodraven put King Aerys on the Iron Throne, but for how long? Aerys is weak, and when he dies, it will be bloody war between Lord Rivers and Prince Maekar for the crown, the Hand against the heir.”

“You have forgotten Prince Rhaegel, my friend,” Ser Maynard objected, in a mild tone. “He comes next in line to Aerys, not Maekar, and his children after him.”

“Rhaegel is feeble-minded. Why, I bear him no ill will, but the man is good as dead, and those twins of his as well, though whether they will die of Maekar’s mace or Bloodraven’s spells ...”

Seven save us, Dunk thought as Egg spoke up shrill and loud. “Prince Maekar is Prince Rhaegel’s brother. He loves him well. He’d never do harm to him or his.”

According to this notion, Bloodraven should support Daeron's lackwit daughter and Aerion's son over Egg. And Rhaegel's children above all if they were alive.

Maester Aemon is suspiciously silent about Bloodraven. Was there bad blood between them because of Egg's ascension?

[Veltigar]

Perhaps Bloodraven didnot support Egg at all. Is there anything suggesting that he did?

According to this notion, Bloodraven should support Daeron's lackwit daughter and Aerion's son over Egg. And Rhaegel's children above all if they were alive.

Maester Aemon is suspiciously silent about Bloodraven. Was there bad blood between them because of Egg's ascension?

BR above all, was a man who wanted the Realms to be ruled by a good (non-BF) leader. Daeron's lackwit daughter was a liability to the Targaryen dynasty and Aerion's son was only a boy (plus he had a less than popular father). Egg was an adult and a true dragon according to BR in tMK. I would find it very unlikely that BR would throw his weight behind any other candidate (save for Aemon) than Egg.

[Mithras]

BR above all, was a man who wanted the Realms to be ruled by a good (non-BF) leader. Daeron's lackwit daughter was a liability to the Targaryen dynasty and Aerion's son was only a boy (plus he had a less than popular father). Egg was an adult and a true dragon according to BR in tMK. I would find it very unlikely that BR would throw his weight behind any other candidate (save for Aemon) than Egg.

Aerys I was not a good king because he was practically not a king as far as we know.

Messing with the succession should be a hypocrisy for him because that was the reason of the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

[Veltigar]

Aerys I was not a good king because he was practically not a king as far as we know.

He was smart enough to leave the ruling of the realm in capable hands. Plus that situation was totally different, succession was fixed at the time, BR couldn't change it. In a Great Council, that changes. There, he would be free to support the best candidate.

[The Raven's Teeth]

I don't recall any reference to Bloodraven calling (or leading) the council that gave Egg the Iron Throne, could someone quote it for me?

In reference to Dark Sister, I doubt that somebody who was imprisoned in the Black Cells (reserved for the worst of the worst) would be allowed to keep any possessions especially a Valyrian Steel sword regardless of how they came by it. I do however think that it is odd that there is no mention made of the fate of Dark Sister and that the last confirmed (IIRC) holder/wielder was Bloodraven.

Perhaps it was returned to the reigning monarch when Bloodraven was imprisoned and maybe it was lost at Summerhall. I think that more information & textual evidence is needed.

[RumHam]

I don't recall any reference to Bloodraven calling (or leading) the council that gave Egg the Iron Throne, could someone quote it for me?

In reference to Dark Sister, I doubt that somebody who was imprisoned in the Black Cells (reserved for the worst of the worst) would be allowed to keep any possessions especially a Valyrian Steel sword regardless of how they came by it. I do however think that it is odd that there is no mention made of the fate of Dark Sister and that the last confirmed (IIRC) holder/wielder was Bloodraven.

Perhaps it was returned to the reigning monarch when Bloodraven was imprisoned and maybe it was lost at Summerhall. I think that more information & textual evidence is needed.

There was no clear heir after Maekar’s death. Brynden Rivers himself led the Great Council that chose Aegon V the Unlikely. (though he soon departed for the wall with Aegon’s older brother Maester Aemon. Bloodraven may not have been forced to take the black). Gerold the Golden was said to be key in swaying things towards Aegon V.

http://www.historyofwesteros.com/concarolinas-westerlands-reading/

[The Raven's Teeth]

http://www.historyofwesteros.com/concarolinas-westerlands-reading/

That's great, thanks very much.

[The Lady Lannister]

If Egg imprisoned BR, it might have been to do with an incident over Shiera Seestar. Just like Dark Sister, Shiera's fate is not really resolved. We know she was BR's paramour. What did she do in those 12 years while BR was in prison? She was said to have inspired men to make total fools of themselves. Maybe BR killed someone over her... Or maybe she relented to Bittersteel in the end. That may have pushed Brynden over the edge.

I also think BR chose to go the Wall. He must have had his own 3-eyed crow calling him. I hope he has Dark Sister.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If Egg imprisoned BR, it might have been to do with an incident over Shiera Seestar. Just like Dark Sister, Shiera's fate is not really resolved. We know she was BR's paramour. What did she do in those 12 years while BR was in prison? She was said to have inspired men to make total fools of themselves. Maybe BR killed someone over her... Or maybe she relented to Bittersteel in the end. That may have pushed Brynden over the edge.

I also think BR chose to go the Wall. He must have had his own 3-eyed crow calling him. I hope he has Dark Sister.

Maester Aemon said:

Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers.

According to Aemon, Bloodraven did not go by free will.

[Fire Eater]

1) we don't know if Bloodraven supported Egg, only that Bloodraven called and presided the council that considered multiple claims

2) that Bloodraven went from jail to the Wall, but was free during the council, suggests that he was imprisoned after the council ended, not before

3) people who are in jail and are send to the Wall usually don't get to make any requests

4) If Aegon was the one to imprison Bloodraven, he would most likely have done so because Bloodraven had done something that had pissed Egg off. Making Egg even less likely to grant any request Bloodraven might have had

1) I think he may have likely did. He and Egg knew each other.

2) We have evidence that he may have chosen the Wall. He knew Egg might not forget that he once tried to keep Egg as a hostage against his father.

3)Except we haven't seen such requests being refused. BR would have asked to take Dark Sister with him, and it would be returned upon his death.

4)It would have been his only request, and it would have been a mercy for life at the Wall.