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Maybe Lyanna had a miscarriage?


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46 replies to this topic

#1 It-was-koff-the-Pie-koff

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:56 AM

Daenerys had one, she didn't die from it (or maybe she did...spooky) but she had one. Maybe Lyanna had one too and died from it. I know there's really no proof either way but it's something to think about.

#2 Loge

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:44 AM

Then why was the Kingsguard there, what did Ned promise, who is Jon Snow's mother and why does Ned make such a secret of it?



#3 Buried Treasure

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:46 AM

Did Dany have a miscarriage or a stillbirth? I thought it would be more likely  the latter, since the baby was almost  full term before it died. Or are the two terms not mutually exclusive?

 

Anyway, a miscarriage for Lyanna is highly unlikely because it does not explain living Jon. R+L=? is a weak theory because we without having to explain Jon's origins a lot of the reasons for thinking Rheagar and Lyanna had a child disappear. The mystery we are given in the books is 'who are Jon's parents?' and it's from that we get the solution J=R+L.



#4 A Bastard Snow

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:46 AM

Then why was the Kingsguard there, what did Ned promise, who is Jon Snow's mother and why does Ned make such a secret of it?

Yea there is no other reason to hide who Jon's mom was if not Lyanna.



#5 Ygrain

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:24 AM

If you can find where in the series "bed of blood" or "bloody bed" refers to miscarriage, then you mught have a point.



#6 sj4iy

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:06 AM

Yea there is no other reason to hide who Jon's mom was if not Lyanna.

 

This.  If Lyanna had no child, then it's back to "Jon is Ned's son" and everything falls apart from there.



#7 Ygrain

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:13 AM

 

This.  If Lyanna had no child, then it's back to "Jon is Ned's son" and everything falls apart from there.

In other words, Apple Martini's test question: if Jon is Ned's son with whomever, why the secrecy?



#8 TheHouseHB

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:17 AM

It is possible that Lyanna gave birth to twins but one did not survive maybe the one that did not survive was the possible female Rhaegar was expecting and Jon was the only survivor of the twins.



#9 Baela of Pentos

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:14 PM

What could that add to the storytelling tho?



#10 It-was-koff-the-Pie-koff

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:59 PM

What could that add to the storytelling tho?

The same thing Daenerys' miscarriage/stillborn added to the story?

#11 Winds of Winter blow cold

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:13 AM

The same thing Daenerys' miscarriage/stillborn added to the story?

No, because that was an important turning point for Dany & her character development. Lyanna is dead, none of that here.



#12 JonisHenryTudor

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:26 AM

Then why was the Kingsguard there, what did Ned promise, who is Jon Snow's mother and why does Ned make such a secret of it?

Not that I buy the argument, but the Kingsguard likely expected a baby to be born. I believe the OP meant stillbirth as miscarriage is something else altogether. 



#13 Debra Morgan

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:31 AM

Then why was the Kingsguard there, what did Ned promise, who is Jon Snow's mother and why does Ned make such a secret of it?


We can't say exactly that Jon is Lyanna's son.

#14 Ygrain

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:45 AM

We can't say exactly that Jon is Lyanna's son.

1) Lyanna had a baby

2) there is a Stark-looking kid of unknown parentage

3) Jon's mother can be figured out on the basis of AGOT

 

How many options does that leave?



#15 Wavey Sauce

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:46 AM

Well we do know Ned made Lyanna some promise that he swore to take to his grave.

 

If it didnt have to deal with Jon or an actual baby the promise could have been that she loved Prince R, and wouldnt want to shame her family or Robert, something like that but I doubt it.

 

R+L=J is so known and obvious now people try to make up circumstances or try to discredit it, just to be different.

 

I mean is clear as hell



#16 Wavey Sauce

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:50 AM

The same thing Daenerys' miscarriage/stillborn added to the story?

 

Dany from the time she was a baby was being hunted down to be killed when Robert wanted all the targs dead, The baby Ned took from the Toj never had their life at risk the second they were born



#17 Wavey Sauce

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 03:52 AM

We can't say exactly that Jon is Lyanna's son.

 

The room was all bloody inside because of the birth she gave there, and the prince left her fav roses to help her get through it. But if you go read back it is obvious she gave birth in that tower



#18 Debra Morgan

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:09 AM

1) Lyanna had a baby
2) there is a Stark-looking kid of unknown parentage
3) Jon's mother can be figured out on the basis of AGOT
 
How many options does that leave?

1) We can't say this exactly.
2) He can be Ned's son
3) His mother can be Ashara

#19 Mikkel

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:14 AM

1) We can't say this exactly.
2) He can be Ned's son
3) His mother can be Ashara


Maybe. He's not, though. I'll bet a cold beer on that.

#20 Ygrain

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:32 AM

1) We can't say this exactly.
2) He can be Ned's son
3) His mother can be Ashara

1) Ahem, "bed of blood".

 

 He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood. (AGOT

Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses (AGOT)

 

Before,” Dany said to the ugly Lhazareen woman, “I heard you speak of birthing songs …”

I know every secret of the bloody bed, Silver Lady, nor have I ever lost a babe,” Mirri Maz Duur replied. (AGOT)

The Lamb Woman knows the secrets of the birthing bed,” Irri said. “She said so, I heard her.” (AGOT)

 

That was the way of this cold world, where men fished the sea and dug in the ground and died, whilst women brought forth short-lived children from beds of blood and pain. (Damphair, AFFC)

 

Those are the sole uses of the phrase within the series, referring solely and exclusively to childbirth, so, yes, we can.

 

2) Why is his mother a secret then? (see the reference guide in the first post of the pinned R+L thread for details)

 

3) GRRM used an explicitely stated piece of gossip as a test question for the show makers? What was he testing with it, their memory? And BTW, when did Ashara sneak into the Northerners' camp to have a tryst with Ned during the Rebellion?