The men in the north

[reddy95]

We know that walder frey has returned for season 5 so we will probably get to be back in winterfell for ramsay's wedding. It is a really important arc for theon and I doubt they will cut it out. But who will be casted and who will be cut out? And do you think we will get some northern redemption, or will they just keep it for the next season?

[Annara Snow]

We know that walder frey has returned for season 5 so we will probably get to be back in winterfell for ramsay's wedding. It is a really important arc for theon and I doubt they will cut it out. But who will be casted and who will be cut out? And do you think we will get some northern redemption, or will they just keep it for the next season?

No, Walder Frey is returning, but not in season 5. And I don't think he will be at the wedding. He normally does not go anywhere.

[reddy95]

when is he returning then?

[FreeParking]

We don't know. And it is cast not casted. Sorry, but it is a pet peeve of mine.

[reddy95]

We don't know. And it is cast not casted. Sorry, but it is a pet peeve of mine.

Ah sorry. I didn't noticed that. I wroted the wrong thing. I shoulded not haved doned that. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Annara Snow]

David Bradley says that D&D have told him he will return. But he also says he hasn't been called to shoot season 5.

Technically, he could still get a call, I guess? But it's unlikely, the Fat Walda actress already knows she is shooting in the autumn. I don't see why Lord Walder would go to Winterfell, he is very old and not very mobile, and he probably just sits at the Twins and doesn't go anywhere. It's more likely we'll see him at the Twins in season 6. Some Freys will probably be at the wedding, just not him.

[FreeParking]

Ah sorry. I didn't noticed that. I wroted the wrong thing. I shoulded not haved doned that. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It is just the casted one that bothers me for some reason. I don't know. Stop looking at me!

[Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies]

I think we'll Get Wyman Manderly (I nominate Ian McNiece of Rome)

The Umbers can be cut if need be but I'd like at least Crowfood.

I hope they don't cut too much even if some Northern Lords are background fodder. The Grand Northern Conspiricy is what helps me sleep at night.

[Bayard]

There are no Northern men left.... except Boltons. That's what most of the unsullied think. I've seen a couple of them wanting the wall to fall, so the white walkers can kill all those traitors left in the North. Nobody thinks that all the nobles are Stark loyalist, many don't even think about the smallfalk left. They may cast some Northern lords, but I have my doubt, in D&D's mind they would waste screen time that could be given to Theon....

[Annara Snow]

There are no Northern men left.... except Boltons. That's what most of the unsullied think. I've seen a couple of them wanting the wall to fall, so the white walkers can kill all those traitors left in the North. Nobody thinks that all the nobles are Stark loyalist, many don't even think about the smallfalk left. They may cast some Northern lords, but I have my doubt, in D&D's mind they would waste screen time that could be given to Theon....

Theon can't spend all his screentime talking to himself - not on screen, anyway - and if the season is about Cersei and the Bolton ruling, as per Benioff, they can't just be ruling over themselves.

Also, those Unsullied you mention don't seem to be very intelligent, to put it as mildly as possible.

[Ruin]

Wonder if the show will change Lady Dustin to Lord Dustin. Instead of Barbrey Dustin, we'll get Barbados Dustin.

[reddy95]

Wonder if the show will change Lady Dustin to Lord Dustin. Instead of Barbrey Dustin, we'll get Barbados Dustin.

may be we will get wywoman womanderly :cool4: ba dum tssss

[Bayard]

Theon can't spend all his screentime talking to himself - not on screen, anyway - and if the season is about Cersei and the Bolton ruling, as per Benioff, they can't just be ruling over themselves.

Also, those Unsullied you mention don't seem to be very intelligent, to put it as mildly as possible.

Theon can speak to Ramsay, fake Arya or another woman he marries, Roose, hell, he can speak with a weirwood now. They can (and will) milk 4-5 scenes from this, enough for the first half of the season, until Stannis becomes a real threat. There will be Northern lords at Winterfell, I don't doubt that, but they will be nameless, just like in the King in the North scene in S1.

[sertravisredbeard]

Yeah I've had to tell some of my Unsullied friends that there's pissed off people up north but they don't believe me because they're like "Who?" and I'm like "All those dudes that died at the Red Wedding all had family up north. And they are PISSED."

I'm happy we're getting these tidbits about northern characters being cast and that Fat Walda is going to be busy filming.

[The Onion Sleight]

Let's look at the facts:

- D&D said there will be more Stannis next season

- Graves or Cogman (can't remember who) and Michael McElhatton said there will be more Roose next season, and some "dastardly stuff" for him to do

- The season will show more of the Boltons ruling

- I once wrote this in another thread about, let's say, "Northmen for Stannis":

Btw, I don't understand why people (on earlier pages) are saying "Now, with Stannis having his huuuuge army, he doesn't need the Northmen anymore."

1.) It is really such huge? Yeah, certainly larger than it was in the books at this point, I don't know if that are more than the 4.000 he had on Dragonstone (and the money was used to get Salla + ships for the army) or if there are some sellswords, too? I guess, maybe someone could count them, in their nice formation, but simply watch again the Bolton scene from 4x08: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2VALgWnO4XY (especially 0:25 and 2:11 till end) and the Stannis scene from 4x10: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=eOgVWcQOjYk .

... Okay, just now, I really tried to calculate how many men there are, I took this picture: http://i.imgur.com/SboB1jo.jpg (charge from the right) and stopped the video at 0:34 (for the charge from the left). What I saw was (16 x 3) x (33 x 2) = 3168 or (16 x 4) x (33 x 2) = 4224.

I don't know how to explain this in military chargon, but there were 2 charges with 33 blocks, and each block had 3 or 4 lines with 16 soldiers. So, 3168-4224, the 4.000 men on Dragonstone would be fitting.

I really can't count or calculate how many Roose and Ramsay have, but it looks like more than this, IMO. In the books, Stannis has in the end ca. 5.000 men, Roose ca. 8.000; I see no problem with adding (to both armies) some Northmen; especially if Stannis e.g. helps the ca. 50 Crows left to man castles and aso. (just a thought of me).

ETA now: The show-wiki says he has at the Wall 3.000 men: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Castle_Black

ETA: Jon using men of Stannis is indeed what happens in ADWD. Both argue about that, Jon wants men who follow his order, and Stannis laughs, saying his men (lords, knights) would never take the black and Jon says, they can wear every colour they want, they should just do what he says... And the ratio of NW members : Wildlings : Stannis' men on the show is pretty extreme, Jon will have to use more Wildlings and soldiers than he would like.

If they ever mention some more castles at the Wall on the show, I guess, they'll also want to crew them, which is an important aspect in Jon's/Stannis' discussions and negotiations.

2.) Is there something as "enough men"?! It would be, IMO, silly from Stannis NOT to try to get the Northmen on his side. Whatever comes / would come / will come after the Battle of Winterfell and the Boltons, Stannis would need the North for his cause.

4.000 men under Stannis' commando may be enough to defeat the Bolton army, but how many men remain after the battle? How many survive the march, the cold, the winter? Even if, let say, 3.500 would survive, 3.500 men are neither enough to fight the Others in the North nor to march South. And hoping they (the Northmen) would/will all support him after freeing Winterfell and restoring House Stark, but not asking them BEFORE he can do this, is silly. Stannis' plans are more than just "(1) Having 4.000 men, (2) Fighting with them against the Boltons, (3) Let's see what happens then, hopefully I won the North with that." Why not gaining their support before the Battle of Ice, when it's needed? And even if it's not -I repeat- they are needed for Stannis' cause anyway, regardless whether you think it's then about the Others or about the throne.

(And yes, I'm the whole time aware of the possibility of Stannis' death early in TWOW).

ETA: Stannis wants to show that there is still a king who cares about the North and its people, he won't allow Wildings / Ironborn / Boltons / Others to threat the folk, he wants to show that to the Northmen and win the throne by saving the realm. Sooner or later he would have to has contact with them, anyway; so, why not sending out letters to them (as in ADWD) at the beginning of season 5 or in the time between 4 and 5?

I read about so many Unsullied-predictions who think it's going to be easy for him now; the North will hear about his victory at the Wall and then they'll rally to him. If he wouldn't even ask the Northmen to do this on the show, it wouldn't be the cleverest thing, IMO.

3.) The idea of "restoring House Stark" doesn't work without Northmen.

In the books: Stannis wants to make Jon the Lord of Winterfell, but he refuses. So, Stan is looking for the next relatives to the Starks, ergo House Karstark and give Winterfell "to a good Northman". Later, he hears about "Arya" and promises Jon to save her, if he can, and find a better husband for her (but the first thing he does in TWOW is sending her to Jon at the Wall).

His idea was actually freeing Winterfell for the Karstarks, but he learns from Jon about their treachery. He doesn't know -so far- about Manderly/Davos/Rickon.

I can't remember if Jon on the show does know that both, Bran and Rickon, are alive or just Bran? But no matter, if he knows it, or if he would tell it Stannis or if not, Stannis' story doesn't work without Northmen. Karstarks / Umbers / Manderly, he needs somebody who whether can be made Lord of Winterfell (Karstark) or even has the rightful Stark Lord (Umber?) or knows where he could be (Manderly).

I'd prefer the Stannis' and Davos' arcs from ADWD of course, I just wanted to emphasize that I don't get any "Stannis doesn't need the Northmen" argument.

- Do I have to explain why the Boltons need Northmen?! Why fArya is needed for all storylines in the North? For Theon? And how this is all connected?...

- I've said it often before and I'll say it again: No Northmen involved in the Battle of Ice would make me really, really angry; we have guys in the books who know, they are old and won't survive the next winter, yet everything they want to do as their last thing is "bathing in Bolton blood"; guys who would do everything to rescue The Ned's little girl; the still lasting love/power for/of the Starks is so present in ADWD, and Roose and Ramsay also know this on the show ("If Bran and Rickon are still alive, the country will rally to their side"); vengeance is a huge topic in the North (Davos' vengeance-speech, Manderly's "The North Remembers"-speech), and damn, the North REALLY does/should remember (They even had already an episode with this title)!

- Whatever is true about the GNC-theories, and what will happen with the Northmen inside Winterfell in TWOW and the Northmen outside Winterfell and Manderly('s men), and everything, they are going to play an important role, IMO.

I don't expect the show to do all this treachery stuff, half Umber-armies, aso. (With the Karstarks, Umbers, Manderlys), they can simplify many things, but at least a bit of cunning Northmen would be great.

And some Northmen in Stannis' camp, and some in Boltons' camp (Man, Reek, Roose, Ramsay need persons to interact with, besides Fat Walda!).

[Annara Snow]

Theon can speak to Ramsay, fake Arya or another woman he marries, Roose, hell, he can speak with a weirwood now. They can (and will) milk 4-5 scenes from this, enough for the first half of the season, until Stannis becomes a real threat. There will be Northern lords at Winterfell, I don't doubt that, but they will be nameless, just like in the King in the North scene in S1.

He can't speak to fArya if she is not cast. Hell, he can't have a story without fArya.

[Queen Ayras Lord Commander]

There are no Northern men left.... except Boltons. That's what most of the unsullied think. I've seen a couple of them wanting the wall to fall, so the white walkers can kill all those traitors left in the North. Nobody thinks that all the nobles are Stark loyalist, many don't even think about the smallfalk left. They may cast some Northern lords, but I have my doubt, in D&D's mind they would waste screen time that could be given to Theon....

Because Tyrion's monologue about beetles was far more important than his falling out with Jamie over the Tysha story.

He can't speak to fArya if she is not cast. Hell, he can't have a story without fArya.

:agree:

They really do need her. I'm clinging to the hope they didn't reveal a lot of people like they did before season 2, IIRC.

may be we will get wywoman womanderly :cool4: ba dum tssss

I already know it has zero chance to make it, but I really want Wylla's scene. Her little speech was my favorite part of ADwD:

I know about the promise … Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf's Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men

The balls of this little girl, to stand up and highlight the hypocrisy of the old "wise" men was excellent!

[Frumpus]

Hell, he can't have a story without fArya.

He can and he will.

Theon's storyline in S5 will be completely different from what it is in ADwD.

[Annara Snow]

He can and he will.

Theon's storyline in S5 will be completely different from what it is in ADwD.

What, are you David Benioff or Dan Weiss, or are you psychic?

Let me amend the statement: Theon can have some sort of a story, sure. He can have a story in which his big moment is learning to tie his shoes, or where he spends an entire season yelling: "WHERE IS MY DICK?!!!" Theon, however, cannot have a GOOD story without fArya.

Also, the book story is amazing and would be very easy to do on screen, all they need is a great actor playing Theon, and they have that. You'd have to either be an idiot or deliberately want to undermine the show to decide to change it. Now, I am not going to categorically state that D&D are not idiots, but unlike you, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt and my default assumption is not that they are idiots or that they will always do the stupidest and most counterproductive thing possible, for no reason other than wanting to make stupid, counterproductive decisions.

[Guardian of the Neck]

I think we might get the greatjon instead of wyman manderly,rememner,in s3e9 osha and rickon went to the last hearth.