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What do Vic, Bobby B ,and Doran have in common?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 Martin RR George

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:08 PM

They're bashed alot around here, quite unfairly!

Is it because their fans aren't as vocal as say ,those of certain others that they're treated like this, that only their negatives are focused on , especially when comparing to the said favourites to prove their inferiority, thus the other character's superiority?

#2 House Hendrix of Rock

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:14 PM

I like all 3 of them, even with the faults they all have

#3 The_Crannogman

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:14 PM

I like Vic, people call him stupid and a thug don't take into account that being brought up on the iron islands you're most likely going to turn out a certain way, I think he has a certain appeal though as he is an honest and works simply. He's not so stupid it hurts but with his up-bringing he was never going to be Einstein but he knows the gifts Euron has given him are poisoned in some way.

 

And he's not a thug for his culture, we saw that as he took no pleasure in killing his salt wife and he thought the guy he killed on the boat who was in armour fought honorably.



#4 Ser Eric

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:17 PM

Don't hate any of them. In fact, I like Doran and Bob.

 

I wish we had seen more of King Bob. Fascinating character.



#5 Anna Targaryen The Purple

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

Stupid siblings is the only thing they have in common...Other than that I don't see any similarities

Also I haven't seen any Doran-bashing :dunno:



#6 LordStoneheart

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:19 PM

It's because the first two are terrible people and the third some fans don't think is smart because he's waited a long time to take any action and doesn't seem to be doing anything active in the meantime. 


Edited by LordStoneheart, 02 August 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#7 Señor de la Tormenta

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:20 PM

Robert is my favourite character.



#8 Lord of the Ring

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

It drives me crazy actually. People rush to judge Robert and Victarion without taking into account their circumstances or upbringing, while Doran is looked down upon only because he's a long term player and nothing like he's ultra popular brother.

#9 Ser Eric

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:26 PM

What did Robert even do? Sure, he fucked around a bit but can't think of anything else.



#10 JonCon's Red Beard

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

It's only Robert the one I don't like but at least he was a good man who was living a lie for sixteen years. Maybe if he had known that Lyanna never loved him, he could have move on, but who knows.

 

My problem with Victarion is the fact that GRRM himself called him dumb. By giving him this plain definition, many people seemed to have stopped giving him depth and label him as stupid and already dooming his whole plot to failure. When I first read about him, before I knew about GRRM calling him dumb, I didn't even notice he was like that. A simple man, yes. Lack of ambition, yes. But definitely not dumb.

 

The case for Doran is similar to what it has been mentioned about a comparison between Dany and Tywin in some other thread. We celebrate the success of a cruel campaign as long as it's successful, because we see the one in charge as successful. For instance, Tywin being a "mastermind". There is a trail of innocent blood behind him, but he's cool because he "won". Dany and Doran have been less successful in what they are trying to do, but Doran and Dany have other people's interests in mind before their own. Doran could have risked Dorne to enter the war and get many innocents killed but he didn't. So far, the only people who has dying are members of his family (and the two companions of Quentyn). The Riverlands and Northern lords aren't that lucky.



#11 Hangover of the Morning

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

Despite the overabundance of his flaws I like Bobby B. He's very well aware of his flaws and his friendship with Ned humanises him a great deal.

 

We know very little of Doran and his plans so I will reserve my judgment of his character for further books. If anything, he seems to be overpraised as a master planner, for which he has very little to show so far. 

 

Vick is an incredibly cruel, narrow-minded dumbass who worst of all is not particularly interesting. 



#12 FaceGardener

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:12 PM

I despise Victarion for one simple reason: he refuses to take responsibility for any of his actions. Despite being strong and raised as a Lord, he behaves weakly and meekly, hurting the weak and bowing down to his older brother: "I HAD to kill my wife, Euron maaaaaade me."

 

Despite having every advantage in life, Victarion has absolutely no spine.



#13 FerociousVeldtRoarer

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:21 PM

It drives me crazy actually. People rush to judge Robert and Victarion without taking into account their circumstances or upbringing, while Doran is looked down upon only because he's a long term player and nothing like he's ultra popular brother.

 

Fun fact: Robert's upbringing was exactly the same as the Ned's. So it's no excuse.



#14 Boarsbane

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:24 PM

Fun fact: Robert's upbringing was exactly the same as the Ned's. So it's no excuse.


Ned didn't watch his parents die right in front of him

#15 Hangover of the Morning

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:27 PM

 

Fun fact: Robert's upbringing was exactly the same as the Ned's. So it's no excuse.

 

What does that even mean? So they should be the same? Not to mention that it's not true at all. They didn't have the same parents or grew up as kids in the same castle. It would be more appropriate to say that Brandon and Ned had the same upbringing.


Edited by Hangover of the Morning, 02 August 2014 - 04:28 PM.


#16 Julia Martell

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:33 PM

Victarion is an idiot and a misogynist and I will hate on him all I like, you can't stop me! His upbringing is an explanation for his character, but it's not an excuse. Maybe he just doesn't have that certain Magnificent Bastard-ness that Euron has to balance out his assholeness. But, then again, Euron also makes me want to barf.

 

I'm more than willing to give Robert a free pass for being promiscuous, but not for making extravagant promises he had no intention of keeping to his baby-mamas. The dude just really needed to read The Ethical Slut, everyone would have been much better off. I do feel sorry for him for not being able to see that the love of his life just wasn't into him, but I doubt he would have been different if he's ended up with her. Lyanna would have grown to hate his as much as Cersei ever did and he would have been just as miserable.

 

And as for Doran, I want to marry him and have his sexually liberated, realpolitiking babies.  



#17 FerociousVeldtRoarer

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:35 PM

What does that even mean? So they should be the same?

 
No. OK, my fault, I guess I was too vague. By "Robert's upbringing was exactly the same as the Ned's. So it's no excuse" I actually meant that Robert's upbringing shouldn't be used as an excuse. Apologies for being, apparently, unclear.

#18 Drogon'sWrath

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:41 PM

I feel like Vic is just a plot device whose ultimate purpose is to bring Dany to Westeros.  I don't particularly like him, but I don't hate him either.  I don't think he's evil but he's certainly a hell of a lot dirtier than a lot of characters.

 

Robert, I feel, is very much a tragic character.  He would have still whored and drank with Lyanna as his wife, but at least he would be happy.  I actually think he would convince himself Lyanna does like him, regardless of evidence to the contrary.  He's extremely flawed, but there's a likable person beneath the flaws.  Still, I can understand the hate he gets.  Smiling at the bodies of Rhaegar's children was cold.

 

I haven't seen a whole lot of Doran hate, but the hate I've seen I just don't get.  Sure, he probably isn't the master planner he claims to be (jury's still out on that one) but at least he's a decent guy.   



#19 Hangover of the Morning

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:43 PM

 
No. OK, my fault, I guess I was too vague. By "Robert's upbringing was exactly the same as the Ned's. So it's no excuse" I actually meant that Robert's upbringing shouldn't be used as an excuse. Apologies for being, apparently, unclear.

 

No need to apologise. I also don't think that Robert's upbringing was particularly horrific. Nor do I think that he was a terrible person by any means. Just a terrible ruler but he was very well aware of that. Vic might come from a fucked up place and grew up admiring the old ways but that still doesn't really excuse him from being a pretty horrible person. 

 

Ramsay probably didn't have exactly rosy childhood but nobody is saying that it justifies his actions as an adult. 



#20 LordStoneheart

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:39 PM

I despise Victarion for one simple reason: he refuses to take responsibility for any of his actions. Despite being strong and raised as a Lord, he behaves weakly and meekly, hurting the weak and bowing down to his older brother: "I HAD to kill my wife, Euron maaaaaade me."

 

Despite having every advantage in life, Victarion has absolutely no spine.

 

True. I hate it when this action is defended. It renders him unforgivable in my mind. 

 

Ned didn't watch his parents die right in front of him

 

Nor did Robert?