Did anyone in the series get screwed over more than Robb Stark?

[Mladen]

I dont even care if she was a mastwr player or not, my respect for her is because she seems a very admirable person (setting aside her love, trying to shield Viserys, surviving Aerys, crowning Viserys [this one I havent got a source for. It might be from.the app, or it may not.be canon, not sure].) It just makes me wonder how she struggled through it all :dunno:

Me neither... She is one of my favorite characters pre-ASOIAF... I actually imagine my favorite actress when I read about her... Cate Blanchett's Galadriel :)

I think Rhaella was a strong woman considering her condition. I have this theory that she subtly conspired to eventually depose Aerys, as well. And not only that, but everything she had to pass... She was certainly the right Queen. What lacked was a decent King.

I agree... I think she was smart and overall a good woman, and really good Queen. I feel a lot of pity thinking about her, but there is something that makes me believe she was someone who was more than just a victim.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Look at it from Karstark's perspective. Two of his sons die fighting Robb's war, and you kill him over killing an enemy? If that's not getting screwed over, I don't know what is.

Robbs father is executed for treason and Robb wants to kill all the Lannisters to get revenge while Kastarks two sons are killed by Jaime and he wants to kill all the Lannisters. Robb should compromised his honor for one of his most loyal bannermen.

[Poppa Bolton]

You can hardly blame Edmure for being unable to divine Robb's plan. The Karstark and Frey problems he kind of brought on himself. The Frey situation is obviously his fault, and he should not have chopped Rickard's head off. He, along with the rest of the Starks, was prone to arbitrarily making the worst decisions possible due to "muh honor."

[Lady Flandrensis]

You can't beat being hated by your own father for being screwed over in life. On that point, I'd say Tyrion and Theon start the running for who got screwed over right from the start. It's one thing to not have parents, but having one and it hating you? Priceless. At least Robb was loved.

[Woman of War]

His mother betrayed Robb? Robb refused to exchange two worthless sisters for Jaime Lannister while Cat simply wanted to have her children back!

(Neither he nor Cat had any idea that Arya had disappeared)

[Stannis'_Barber]

Tyrion. His father and sister hate him. His wife hates him his brother lyed to him about the only girl that truly loved him. He got no credit for defending KL in the battle of Blackwater. He has wrongly been accused of murder twice and now lives in exile.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

His mother betrayed Robb? Robb refused to exchange two worthless sisters for Jaime Lannister while Cat simply wanted to have her children back!

(Neither he nor Cat had any idea that Arya had disappeared)

In that scenario, it seems Robb betrayed Cat and his family.

[HexMachina]

Me neither... She is one of my favorite characters pre-ASOIAF... I actually imagine my favorite actress when I read about her... Cate Blanchett's Galadriel :)

I agree... I think she was smart and overall a good woman, and really good Queen. I feel a lot of pity thinking about her, but there is something that makes me believe she was someone who was more than just a victim.

Hmm, Cate Blanchett.... :idea: This will likely colour all my re-reads from now on, in a good way. I thank you :cheers:

[House Lemongrab]

Pate got screwed over pretty bad. Poor guy just wanted to impress Rosey, then gets poisoned for his efforts.

[Universal Sword Donor]

It wasn't flat lands though, he fought them at the much more strategic fords.

And cost himself a lot of men he needed.

[new djinn]

Samwell Tarly, Theon Greyjoy, Viserys Targaryen, Elia Martell, Rhaella Targaryen, hell even Robert Arryn! Suffering the consequences of his mistakes are not ''being screwed over''.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Robb's great flaw was using Northern logic while fighting in the South. He valued honor which, in a cold place where everybody must band together to survive, is a very good idea. But there are plenty of resources in the South, which means that subterfuge is a good idea.

Surely, by now, we have met enough people to put this silly misconception to rest? Roose Bolton is a true northman, born and bred. So is his son Ramsay. So is Arnolf Karstark - hell, honestly most Karstarks seem to be karseholes. And a talent for backstabbing isn't exclusive to the bad guys. Lord Manderly's revenge against the Freys is magnificent, but it most certainly isn't something that the Ned would do (or approve). I'll say that honor in the series is pretty much climate-independent.

[The Bedding]

Yes. Walder Frey. So everything worked out well.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1. OK, we can technically called that a treason, but what is silly to argue that it caused RW... Answer me that logic. Answer me how is my post "uneducated". Provide me some text proofs that point that Jaime's release directly caused RW.

3. Edmure is the Overlord of his half an army, thus he should have been informed about the plans. That is why Kings have war councils

1. I never said releasing Jaime caused the RW?! I said Cat betrayed Robb by letting Jaime go...

[Mladen]

1. I never said releasing Jaime caused the RW?! I said Cat betrayed Robb by letting Jaime go...

In this post, you were agreeing with the poster who said that my opinion that Jaime's release didn't cause RW, hence my confusion... I am sorry if I misinterpreted that.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

In this post, you were agreeing with the poster who said that my opinion that Jaime's release didn't cause RW, hence my confusion... I am sorry if I misinterpreted that.

I was agreeing that Tywin never would have orchestrated the RW if Robb held Jaime. Surely you agree with that? Tywin wouldn't have risked Jaime getting killed there.

I do not agree that Cat releasing Jaime caused the RW. I think it just allowed it to happen. It would have happened sooner or later.

[LordStoneheart]

I was agreeing that Tywin never would have orchestrated the RW if Robb held Jaime. Surely you agree with that? Tywin wouldn't have risked Jaime getting killed there.

I do not agree that Cat releasing Jaime caused the RW. I think it just allowed it to happen. It would have happened sooner or later.

No because as he said before, Tywin all but gave up Jaime for dead after Whispering Wood and has a history of not letting hostages (aside from Aerys) sway him.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I was agreeing that Tywin never would have orchestrated the RW if Robb held Jaime. Surely you agree with that? Tywin wouldn't have risked Jaime getting killed there.

I do not agree that Cat releasing Jaime caused the RW. I think it just allowed it to happen. It would have happened sooner or later.

Tywin planned into trading Jaime for Cat and Edmure, Post-RW. It was in the works way before Cat released Jaime.

[Mladen]

I was agreeing that Tywin never would have orchestrated the RW if Robb held Jaime. Surely you agree with that? Tywin wouldn't have risked Jaime getting killed there.

I do not agree that Cat releasing Jaime caused the RW. I think it just allowed it to happen. It would have happened sooner or later.

No, actually. Not only that Tywin gave up on Jaime, but we have situation from Rebellion when Tywin simply wasn't afraid of Jaime being hostage.

The RW preparations started BEFORE Cat released Jaime.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Tywin planned into trading Jaime for Cat and Edmure, Post-RW. It was in the works way before Cat released Jaime.

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Tywin planned to trade Jaime for Cat & Edmure post RW?

Tywin did not hold Cat post RW, Cat was dead or well. .. Undead.

At any rate I'm not saying the RW wouldn't have happened had Cat not released him. What I said was that Cat betrayed Robb by releasing Jaime. Then I agreed with another poster that Tywin would not have orchestrated the RW while Jaime was being held & that losing Jaime was a big loss for the Starks...