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Did anyone in the series get screwed over more than Robb Stark?


Robb_Warged

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1. His mother didn't betray him.

2. Theon isn't his brother, which he was being repeatedly reminded.

3. Edmure's actions can't be judged. He should have told him.

We can say easily that marrying Jeyne was a mistake, but promise to Freys weren't bad idea. Simply, he needed them at that moment...

Robb can't blame his family for his failure. He can blame traitors, but his bannermen are showing exceptional respect and loyalty towards him and his cause. Even now when he is dead and his House destroyed...

Of course she did - its text book treason. Doesnt matter whether it hurt Robb's cause(it kinda did) or didnt - she frees a prisoner against the wishes of her King - cases dont get easier than that. If she was anyone else she'd have lost her head.

@OP - IMO Robb gets screwed by almost everyone he trusts and tbh by himself as well

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Not theon he was an over ambitious idiot and Lysa didn't get more screwed than Robb

uhm, theon was flayed and tortured (I think his ADWD POV shows how screwed up he is because of the torture). Lysa was a young girl in love, forced to abort her baby and marry an old man + remained in love for the rest of her life with a man who loved her sister and who ultimately killed her.

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uhm, theon was flayed and tortured (I think his ADWD POV shows how screwed up he is because of the torture). Lysa was a young girl in love, forced to abort her baby and marry an old man + remained in love for the rest of her life with a man who loved her sister and who ultimately killed her.

Theon deserved it and Lysa's father wasn't murdered, her siblings weren't held hostage(mostly), and she wasn't betrayed by half of the people around her. She had a typical marriage and a swift death.

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Theon deserved it and Lysa's father wasn't murdered, her siblings weren't held hostage(mostly), and she wasn't betrayed by half of the people around her. She had a typical marriage and a swift death

I think it's subjective to say what characters would consider "worse". For Lysa, who loved LF almost her entire life, realising at the end that he never loved her and all he ever did was use her and abuse her affection for him, this must have been the worst betrayal and heartbreak imagineable.

+ no, theon did a lot of horrible things, but he didn't deserve to be tortured (especially in such a cruel manner), no one deserves that ...

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^^Theon deserved to be flayed for half a year in the dungeons of a monster. Forced to eat rats and probably castrated? Having his teeth knocked out and having to sleep with dogs?



Lysa's father forcibly aborted her then made her marry someone old enough to be her grandfather. She went on too lose her children 7 times. Miscarriages, stillbirths and one frail sickly child.


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It's not either Northern logic nor Northern honor (whatever this may be). This was Ned's logic and Ned's honor which Robb emulated. Also, Jeyne Westerling wasn't planted by Tywin. We even hear how she loves him and how she fought for the crown Robb gave her... The traitors in Westerling family, the Tywin's agents were Jeyne's mother and uncle, not her.

Yes, she was planted by her mother at TYwin's bequest. That doesn't mean the daughter didn't love him. 2 separate issues.

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^^Theon deserved to be flayed for half a year in the dungeons of a monster. Forced to eat rats and probably castrated? Having his teeth knocked out and having to sleep with dogs?

Lysa's father forcibly aborted her then made her marry someone old enough to be her grandfather. She went on too lose her children 7 times. Miscarriages, stillbirths and one frail sickly child.

Let's not forget Lysa was used most of her life by the man she loved, even against her own family.

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Yes, she was planted by her mother at TYwin's bequest. That doesn't mean the daughter didn't love him. 2 separate issues.

We have no proof of that. We have Tywin's word about Jeyne but here we have to assume that he was thinking about Sybel. As far as we know, Jeyne indeed loved Robb. It would kinda be nonsensical to assume that she was an active part of Spicer/Westerling treachery.

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Mirri Maaz Dur got screwed over worse than anyone in the series.



Here is this old lady, a healer and midwife living in her peaceful kindly village full of peaceful hardworking people.



Along comes the beloved "Sun and Stars" who egged on by his wife and her insistence on their sons "birthright" is out to make a quick buck. Everyone she knows is in a single day served a combination of rape, murder, or slavery. She herself was raped repeatedly.



She is "saved" (lucky you! You get to be the slave of the woman who instigated the mass murder of everyone you ever loved!) still she manages to make herself useful finding it in her heart to heal the mass murdering, serial raping, slaver extraordinaire "Suns and Stars".



After he disregards her medical orders she gets blamed when he takes a turn for the worst. Against her strongest warnings she is forced to work some dark magic. AGAIN her medical orders are disregarded and AGAIN she is blamed for the outcome.



Finally she is mocked and burned alive which is supposed to be just about the worst way to go.



Later to add insult to horribly prolonged injury Daenerys declares, "I will not punish a slave for harming his master".




Maybe Theon had a worse punishment, but Theon had it coming. MMD should have had something good coming, not this long humiliating end where she first was allowed the privilege of watching everyone she cared about enslaved, raped, and killed.


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Theon didn't deserve Ramsay, but he brought the whole situation on himself. Robb didn't do anything to Theon, Roose or Lysa to explain their behaviour.

Some other people definitely had it worse (notably, Jeyne, Lollys) but it was usually a one-off bad event/rotten luck rather than a betrayal after betrayal after betrayal. Robb made mistakes but while other people literally got away with murder, it feels like the universe conspired to go over and above punish Robb to the maximum fullest extent for every error of judgement.

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Mirri Maaz Dur got screwed over worse than anyone in the series.

The old woman who killed an infant in utero to spite his mother for the audacity to offer help while being naive about the help she was giving? yeah, fuck that old hag, I'm glad we got to hear her screams.

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I think it's subjective to say what characters would consider "worse". For Lysa, who loved LF almost her entire life, realising at the end that he never loved her and all he ever did was use her and abuse her affection for him, this must have been the worst betrayal and heartbreak imagineable.

/quote]

I understand what you are saying, but I've jumped off a cliff into water big enough for my life to flash before my eyes and I doubt she felt anything other then terror. She would have seen parts of her life that mattered to her and felt the blackest, most hopeless kind of fear.

Cat and Theons arcs are both incredibly tragic because they start with impulsive decisions and they don't back down from their bad judgement.

Ned has IMO a tragic arc, not because he's suffered whilst Alive long enough to see his decisions play out but because he made the choice to show mercy, because he felt the heavy burden of the events of the tower of joy and sacking of the city. He wanted to avoid the children's blood on his hands but set out a course of events that have devastated westoros and lead to another generation of Starks being killed. Whatever hapoens to Rikkon, Arya, Jon, Bran, and Sansa just like Ned their lives are shattered.

If anyone has plot armour it's Jamie, Tyrion and Cersei, how she still wields any power at all stumps me.

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I will give you marrying Jeyne and breaking his promise to the Frey's (a promise his mother made for him that he did not give approval to or know about at the time) as arguably the worst decision anyone has made in this series.

1. His mother didn't make the promise without his approval. He had the option to decline, but doing so would mean that he couldn't cross the Green Fork. He decided to make the pact in order to cross.

2. I personally believe Ned's decision to warn Cersei before telling Robert the truth was the worst decision in the series. Had he simply taken the girls and left, he wouldn't have been killed in King's Landing and Robb never would have gone to war in the first place. Ned might have, with Stannis, and it's possible he would have come to the same problem of crossing the Green Fork. Still, without Ned's bad decision, Robb never would have made his.

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I think Theon got screwed over the most. After his brothers were killed and his father defeated, he was taken hostage by a foreign family, with whom he lived for the next decade under constant threat of being killed should his father rebel again. I don't care how well the Starks treated him, or if Ned wouldn't have actually gone through with killing him if it came to that; the threat of it still existed, and Theon still lived in fear of it. When he finally had the chance to return home to his proper place and family, instead of getting a warm welcome, his father shunned him, his sister insulted and humiliated him, and none of "his people" were pleased to see him back. He made a very, very bad decision in betraying Robb, but only in the hopes of winning back his father's love and his place as a Greyjoy. When that went to hell, he was held captive and physically and psychologically tortured for a year, including being castrated, then his torturer used him as a pawn in his own game of thrones, in which Theon was implicit in the slaying of more Ironborn, and the rape and torture of an innocent girl he grew up with.



Seriously, how can anything Robb went through possibly compare to that?!


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