Kojiro Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I swear, I saw Quentyn Martell alive at the Inn of the Crossroads having cups of mead with Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister. *Sage nod.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I don't think Quentyn is alive but from the first read I thought something was up with him and Drink. I'm not sure what it is as I don't believe that they switched identities or anything but something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carllav Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 Ok, well sorry for wasting everyone time, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesW Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 mmm... extremely unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direwolf Blitzer Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I swear, I saw Quentyn Martell alive at the Inn of the Crossroads having cups of mead with Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister. *Sage nod.* I saw Quentyn Martell drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's. His hair was perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta_Greyjoy Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I don't think Quentyn is alive but from the first read I thought something was up with him and Drink. I'm not sure what it is as I don't believe that they switched identities or anything but something. I believe Gerris wanted to sabotage Quentyn's bid for Dany's hand in marriage. In all likelihood, Gerris is in cohoots with Doran and they want to double-cross the Yronwoods and lead Quentyn on a wild goose/dragon chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I believe Gerris wanted to sabotage Quentyn's bid for Dany's hand in marriage. In all likelihood, Gerris is in cohoots with Doran and they want to double-cross the Yronwoods and lead Quentyn on a wild goose/dragon chase.Why would Doran want to do that tto his son though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Free Folk Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Many other people in Dance and Feast have different names. It's about identity and how they seem themselves. Quentyn's chapters are named different than his own name because he felt out of place. :agree: The different chapter names are just another way that GRRM is playing on the theme of identity - one of the series' recurring themes - and nothing more, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I S**t Gold Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 There's a lot of scepticism about this clearly. I don't think there's any doubt the POV character we know as Quentyn is dead. However the absence of Doran's wife is unexplained and we know very little about her. We do know that the relationship between Doran and her was a close one. We also know that she was against allowing Quentyn to be adopted by the Hornwoods, who historically don't get along with the Martell's. One explanation for this could be that Doran switched Quentyn with a doppelganger. Another could be that his missus simply abducted Quent and Doran had to improvise. We don't get a satisfactory explanation for her absence at all, but those two explanations seem plausible to me. I wouldn't go so far as to say this means Quentyn is definitely alive but the two explanations I've outlined are possibilities surely? I should say I can't take credit for these theories, and they are theories. I'm not sure whether Quentyn is alive or dead, but to say 'no, definitely not' seems a little simplistic and I can't see anything in the text that absolutely rules it out. I haven't seen anything in this thread that absolutely rules it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Ok, well sorry for wasting everyone time, lol.No hard feelings. I've seen crazier theories. There's one about Bran and Willas being the same person. And Doran Martell stole his/their wheelchair. I'm hazy on the details but your theory is pretty sane. I've seen much worse, I swear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta_Greyjoy Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Why would Doran want to do that tto his son though? Maybe he fears a plot by the Yronwoods, and that Quentyn is too loyal to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 How do you read the books and have this type of theory? GRRMs writing style doesn't leave room for this type of theoretical nonsense; We are given character perspectives and are reading these people's thought processes', we know that he is Quentyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojiro Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 How do you read the books and have this type of theory? GRRMs writing style doesn't leave room for this type of theoretical nonsense; We are given character perspectives and are reading these people's thought processes', we know that he is Quentyn. Cue the "brainwashing" theory in 5... 4... 3... 2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carllav Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 There's a lot of scepticism about this clearly. I don't think there's any doubt the POV character we know as Quentyn is dead. However the absence of Doran's wife is unexplained and we know very little about her. We do know that the relationship between Doran and her was a close one. We also know that she was against allowing Quentyn to be adopted by the Hornwoods, who historically don't get along with the Martell's. One explanation for this could be that Doran switched Quentyn with a doppelganger. Another could be that his missus simply abducted Quent and Doran had to improvise. We don't get a satisfactory explanation for her absence at all, but those two explanations seem plausible to me. I wouldn't go so far as to say this means Quentyn is definitely alive but the two explanations I've outlined are possibilities surely? I should say I can't take credit for these theories, and they are theories. I'm not sure whether Quentyn is alive or dead, but to say 'no, definitely not' seems a little simplistic and I can't see anything in the text that absolutely rules it out. I haven't seen anything in this thread that absolutely rules it out.This goes along with my original thought that the Quentyn we meet is some kind of doppelgänger. He may have been raised being called Quentyn, but he's really just some random. Meanwhile, baby aegon was switched, and brought to Dorne, and maybe he was raised as someone else. I'm not sure. I just keep thinking about how Arrianne is talking to Doran, and asks him if there's any word on Quentyn, and Doran says he heard that ships put in at Lys for fresh water, and that they have elephants. We know now that that's Aegon. So is Doran mistaken, and thinks he's hearing about quentyn, or is he aware of Aegon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carllav Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 “Dorne still has friends at court. Friends who tell us things we were not meant to know. This invitation Cersei sent us is a ruse. Trystane is never meant to reach King’s Landing.”Who are their friends at court? Does Tyrion still have contact with Dorne? Or is it Varys? Are Varys, Illyrio, and Doran in cahoots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carllav Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 That green-haired girl was the Archons daughter. I was to have sent you to Tyrosh in her place. You would have served the Archon as a cupbearer and met with your betrothed in secret, but your mother threatened to harm herself if I stole another of her children, and I . . . I could not do that to her.(The Princess in the Tower, AFfC)Stole another child? As if they stole the real quentyn, and switched him with baby Aegon?Apparently Quentyn was born the year before the sack of kings landing."And in due time, Quentyn was given to Lord Anders to foster as a sign of trust. That helped to heal the breach between Sunspear and the Yronwoods, but it had opened new ones between Quentyn and the Sand Snakes... and Arianne had always been closer to her cousins than to her distant brother."Does this show that Quentyn is really a pawn in this game? A false son, to bring the two houses back together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I S**t Gold Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 So is Doran mistaken, and thinks he's hearing about quentyn, or is he aware of Aegon? I would say it's impossible Doran wouldn't be clued in to the Aegon situation. He definitely has ties to Varys and Illyrio and Aegon could well have been the horse he was backing all along. There's also the 'other person' Illyrion and Varys is talking about when Arya eavesdrops on them in the first book. Given they have a clear history of colluding together on similar plots Doran must be the most likely candidate to be the other person in the alliance. I should say I am playing devil's advocate a little. I lean slightly towards Quent being the real Quent. However there are some unanswered questions and room for doubt, so your OP is an interesting question for me. There is nothing I can find to disprove the doppelganger theory, but the reason I lean the other way is I find it more interesting if Doran uses his own son as a pawn. Quent certainly thinks he's Quent and he's definitely a pawn. There's a lot of things Doran could do to increase Quentyn's chances of success but he clearly hasn't, Quent's woefully unprepared. Quent is compromised by the Hornwood influence. Doran hasn't been able to groom him and I don't think he can trust him with something that is vital to his plans. By sending frog boy to Dany he makes her think kindly of Dorne even when she knocks him back. That means they're less likely to get burned up by dragon attacks. Strategic advantage, so for me the plan worked. He's misleading the Hornwoods and throwing them off the scent of his true plans, he's avoiding a budding romance between a Martell and a Hornwood, and he's making Dany's army more likely to walk past than trample through Dorne. Quent wasn't supposed to go and get burned up. I think this is true whether he's Quent or fake Quent. This plan was designed to work even if it failed. But again, that's just my perspective, a lot of people would probably disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carllav Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 I would say it's impossible Doran wouldn't be clued in to the Aegon situation. He definitely has ties to Varys and Illyrio and Aegon could well have been the horse he was backing all along. There's also the 'other person' Illyrion and Varys is talking about when Arya eavesdrops on them in the first book. Given they have a clear history of colluding together on similar plots Doran must be the most likely candidate to be the other person in the alliance. I should say I am playing devil's advocate a little. I lean slightly towards Quent being the real Quent. However there are some unanswered questions and room for doubt, so your OP is an interesting question for me. There is nothing I can find to disprove the doppelganger theory, but the reason I lean the other way is I find it more interesting if Doran uses his own son as a pawn. Quent certainly thinks he's Quent and he's definitely a pawn. There's a lot of things Doran could do to increase Quentyn's chances of success but he clearly hasn't, Quent's woefully unprepared. Quent is compromised by the Hornwood influence. Doran hasn't been able to groom him and I don't think he can trust him with something that is vital to his plans. By sending frog boy to Dany he makes her think kindly of Dorne even when she knocks him back. That means they're less likely to get burned up by dragon attacks. Strategic advantage, so for me the plan worked. He's misleading the Hornwoods and throwing them off the scent of his true plans, he's avoiding a budding romance between a Martell and a Hornwood, and he's making Dany's army more likely to walk past than trample through Dorne. Quent wasn't supposed to go and get burned up. I think this is true whether he's Quent or fake Quent. This plan was designed to work even if it failed. But again, that's just my perspective, a lot of people would probably disagree.I think your onto something. Dorne and Yornwood have bad blod between them. It would throw the Yornwoods off the scent by them having Doran's son. And with Doran's untrustful nature, I wouldn't be surprised that if Quent is really his son, he may be willing to sacrifice him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojiro Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 This goes along with my original thought that the Quentyn we meet is some kind of doppelgänger. He may have been raised being called Quentyn, but he's really just some random. Meanwhile, baby aegon was switched, and brought to Dorne, and maybe he was raised as someone else. I'm not sure. I just keep thinking about how Arrianne is talking to Doran, and asks him if there's any word on Quentyn, and Doran says he heard that ships put in at Lys for fresh water, and that they have elephants. We know now that that's Aegon. So is Doran mistaken, and thinks he's hearing about quentyn, or is he aware of Aegon? Without any existing communication back to Dorne and the nature of how Chinese Whispers gets played a lot in this series, it seems patently obvious that Doran is mistaken and thinks Aegon's exploits are Quentyn's. He certainly gave Quentyn no shortage of material goods that could be used to buy mercs, after all--remember their wares and goods left behind in Volantis from when they were masquerading as wine merchants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#Turncloak Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Quentyn was a secret Targ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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