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GRRM character traits & plots change due to forums? (spoilers possible)


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#1 TheFacelessOther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:27 PM

This may have been discussed before, to some degree, but I have questions. Do you think GRRM has/will change character plot lines, or any plot lines for that matter, OR traits etc based on what fans have stated here, and in other forums and discussions?

 

For example, we know he said that Osha will have a more detailed plot line, because of the Natalia Tena's amazing portrayal of her. So this alone tells me that the overall plot of the books is a bit of a moving target. I tend to believe that GRRM has a set final story line, or conclusion, but do any of you think that could change, based on what fans have "assumed" or said?

 

The whole assumption of Jon's parentage for example? If that IS the case, would he change it, because so many expect it?

 

OR, maybe he's gotten ideas from theories from fans, that makes him say "hey, that's a great idea, I'm going to put it into the book"? I'm curious what others think?

 

Does GRRM have a hard and fast plot (maybe like JK Rowling for HP) or, being that is was supposed to be 3 books...5 books...7 books PROVE his plot is a moving target?



#2 Hangover of the Morning

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:31 PM

No. He debunked that many times. Most recently here. He apparently stays away from any internet forums. 

 

That said no one is immune to influences and the story has been developing for over two decades so I bet things that seemed like a great idea earlier on (e.g. 5 year gap) might not appeal to him anymore. 



#3 WMarshal

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:32 PM

No, he doesn't go on these forms, people Elio who helps him with his work does, but I doubt they do or say anything Martin isn't cool with.



#4 TheFacelessOther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:38 PM

Ah, 'tis a good idea to avoid the fan forums. But hangover, you make me think of an interesting point. Given the timeframe between books, I wouldn't be surprised at all if something changes, just because of his mood. The thing is, these characters are real people to an author, I mean they really are. They have likes, dislikes, quirks and such and when there is an action, the reaction, once considered might change.

 

Now, okay having said THAT, what about the show? Apply my same question, but instead of fan theories, how much will or won't the show change the outcome of the overal story arch?



#5 RoamingRonin

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:42 PM

He knows certain plot points but he doesn't have the entire story mapped out in advance. The same thing with Rowling. 



#6 WMarshal

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:42 PM

The show is a completely different animal, Martin has pointed out many a time they are not following the books examples exactly.



#7 TheFacelessOther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:50 PM

The show is a completely different animal, Martin has pointed out many a time they are not following the books examples exactly.

 Oh for sure, I'm not saying that. I would consider myself an amateur author...and I MEAN amateur, but I've always had this story in my head, and have started writing it, and even shows that aren't related give me ideas. I agree, the overal plot, or end game is probably already considered, but I just wonder how much outside influence there is on the smaller details. Really, until you ask GRRM AFTER he's finished, it's almost impossible to answer. It's all just curiosity on my part.



#8 Hangover of the Morning

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:54 PM

Ah, 'tis a good idea to avoid the fan forums. But hangover, you make me think of an interesting point. Given the timeframe between books, I wouldn't be surprised at all if something changes, just because of his mood. The thing is, these characters are real people to an author, I mean they really are. They have likes, dislikes, quirks and such and when there is an action, the reaction, once considered might change.

 

Now, okay having said THAT, what about the show? Apply my same question, but instead of fan theories, how much will or won't the show change the outcome of the overal story arch?

 

Same thing about the show apparently. He sees the character as he created them not as they are on the show. Apparently he even sees all the LOTR characters as he pictured them the first time he read Tolkien's books and the films didn't change that.

 

Martin says (paraphrasing) that when he writes, he gets into the story so much that he forgets the world, the TV show etc. I am sure that he's honest about it but t's just really hard to imagine for me because I certainly don't have that ability.

 

Obviously 20 years is a very long time and lots of things happened in Geroge's life (and in the world) since he started writing AGoT. He himself claims to be a "gardener type" writer so the story is developing organically rather than him having a specific plan. He has the main storyline mapped out (the end points for major characters) and apparently that has not changed and will not change even if the whole internet would figure it all out. 



#9 Lady Flandrensis

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:56 PM

No, GRRM said he hasn't looked at a fan forum since 2012. That's not to say that D&D may not feature a character in the TV series who's a nobody in the books. Or go entirely astray from the books. They've already done that. GRRM will do what he wants free of our malingering and babble.



#10 FerociousVeldtRoarer

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:00 PM

This may have been discussed before, to some degree, but I have questions. Do you think GRRM has/will change character plot lines, or any plot lines for that matter, OR traits etc based on what fans have stated here, and in other forums and discussions?
 
For example, we know he said that Osha will have a more detailed plot line, because of the Natalia Tena's amazing portrayal of her. So this alone tells me that the overall plot of the books is a bit of a moving target. I tend to believe that GRRM has a set final story line, or conclusion, but do any of you think that could change, based on what fans have "assumed" or said?
 
The whole assumption of Jon's parentage for example? If that IS the case, would he change it, because so many expect it?

 

No. First, an observant reader was expected to figure it out, that's what all those clues were for. Second, the "so many" here are still just a few thousand among several millions of readers. There's plenty of strong evidence confirming life outside this forum. 
 

OR, maybe he's gotten ideas from theories from fans, that makes him say "hey, that's a great idea, I'm going to put it into the book"? I'm curious what others think?

 

He claims not to read fan forums. Whether that's truthful or not is anybody's guess. I firmly suspect that all those kooks creating accounts to post some outrageous, completely unsubstantiated, crackpot theories are in fact George R. R. Martin, procrastinating.
 

Does GRRM have a hard and fast plot (maybe like JK Rowling for HP) or, being that is was supposed to be 3 books...5 books...7 books PROVE his plot is a moving target?

 

Well, it seems safe to assume that "the tale grew in the telling", as it so often happens. He may have a definitive plan for the ending, and may even stick to it.



#11 TheFacelessOther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

You know when I think about it, being a so called amateur author (by amateur, I mean a guy that can play 2 chords and hopes to be a rock star) the shear depth of story and character AND to keep it all straight must be a challenge all its own. A guy would HAVE to shut out the world in order to write, which for all intents and purposes is a 1000 year history text on a made up world. It's staggering, and the fact he's been able to pull it off - I tip my hat to him, good ser.



#12 Hangover of the Morning

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:06 PM

You know when I think about it, being a so called amateur author (by amateur, I mean a guy that can play 2 chords and hopes to be a rock star) the shear depth of story and character AND to keep it all straight must be a challenge all its own. A guy would HAVE to shut out the world in order to write, which for all intents and purposes is a 1000 year history text on a made up world. It's staggering, and the fact he's been able to pull it off - I tip my hat to him, good ser.

 

I agree. When I read the books I actually can't believe that it took Martin only 5 years to write each of the instalments. That obviously doesn't stop me from bitching about how TWoW should have been published yesterday. 



#13 TheFacelessOther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:07 PM

 

I agree. When I read the books I actually can't believe that it took Martin only 5 years to write each of the instalments. That obviously doesn't stop me from bitching about how TWoW should have been published yesterday. 

I so totally agree (and feel okay when he gives people like me the finger)



#14 Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:13 PM

I hope not.



#15 Trickrs

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:27 PM

Oh god, please no.



#16 7th-key

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:04 PM

^ me, three.



#17 Hodor's Dragon

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:36 PM

 I firmly suspect that all those kooks creating accounts to post some outrageous, completely unsubstantiated, crackpot theories are in fact George R. R. Martin, procrastinating.

 

 

 

 

I'm so busted.



#18 JasonJD

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:25 PM

I hope he makes it so R+L=/=J since at this point it's so expected. Even if he never comes here, that theory is so out there in the public domain now he must know that many many people think it.


Edited by JasonJD, 02 August 2014 - 09:25 PM.