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The Vale lords didnt rebel against Lysa Tully why ?


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#1 the storm king returns

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:29 PM

First of all the Vale gets sad news that Lord Jon Aryyn has been what they believe to be murdered by the lannisters, we know this isnt the truth but this is the lie that Lysa has told the Lords of the Vale. Then Tyrion Lannister apparently tries to murder Bran Stark Lysas nephew and robs heir to winterfell. Then Robert is dead, Ned Starks head removed from his body, and the lannisters essentially take the Iron throne.

Then the North and Riverlands go to war with guess who??? YES the lannisters, Tywin begins burning and pileging Lysas home the riverlands and the Lords of the vale litterally BEG Lysa to help défend her own home not theres but she says no? What happened to family,duty,honor the tully words ?? She Lets her neices nephews and brother and uncle to fend for them selfs....

Yohn Royce loved NED when ROB lost his head that should have been his time to say fuck you , your obviously à coward and ride off with my at least 20000 that house Royce control.

#2 LionoftheWest

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

I'll just say that if House Royce controlls 20 000 men they are probably more powerful than the Hightowers and up there with the Great Houses. Most likely, they can perhaps have 4000-5000 men, and that is very high if true.



#3 joluoto2

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:41 PM

Because of their respect of Jon Arryn and House Arryn in general they do as the widow and guardian of the heir says. They seem to have a tendency to grudgingly accept situations they don't like for the prosperity of the Vale.



#4 the storm king returns

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:38 PM

Yes but for one thing Jon Aryn would have called his banners and marched his men up Tywins flank as soon as soon as Tywin attacked the riverlands, the north and Riverlands are there allys and friends.

Secondly Yohn Royce has 20000 men because he controls the lord declarents, who would they listen to à cowardly woman who wouldnt even protect her own family let alone the Aryns for Christ sake, Or Yohn Royce whos family have lived in the vale for centuries ??

#5 Lord Thaeglei of Frostpyre

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:54 PM

Yes but for one thing Jon Aryn would have called his banners and marched his men up Tywins flank as soon as soon as Tywin attacked the riverlands, the north and Riverlands are there allys and friends.

Secondly Yohn Royce has 20000 men because he controls the lord declarents, who would they listen to à cowardly woman who wouldnt even protect her own family let alone the Aryns for Christ sake, Or Yohn Royce whos family have lived in the vale for centuries ??

 

House Royce can probably field about 6,000 men at most.. Along with the great houses of the Vale like Houses Waynwood, Redfort, Hunter, Belmore and Templeton, they can raise 20,000 men all following Lord Yohn Royce's leadership.. BUT he just can disregard Lysa Tully's regency in the Vale.. Yohn Royce loved Ned Stark, why wouldn't he, he is his third cousin and probably Ned's closest known living kin after Benjen (excluding his children of-course) and Ned grew up in the Vale.. But despite that strong connection with the Stark, Yohn Royce cannot take his own banners even if he had the all out support of the other great houses of the Vale for the would be blatantly disrespecting and outright revolting again House Arryn, his liege lords. and we all know the the Vale loved Jon Arryn and his name still earns such respect among his people, and Lysa is for all intents and purposes, his his wife, and the mother of his son and heir.. Despite being so close to open revolt, Yohn Royce still followed his liege's orders and kept his forces in the Vale allowing House Lannister to destroy all its enemies in every compass point..



#6 thelittledragonthatcould

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:13 PM

Secondly Yohn Royce has 20000 men because he controls the lord declarents, who would they listen to à cowardly woman who wouldnt even protect her own family let alone the Aryns for Christ sake, Or Yohn Royce whos family have lived in the vale for centuries ??

He doesn't control the Lords Declarent. They were a faction put together because they were worried about Littlefingers influence over Sweet Robin, outside of signing a declaration they are not bound together.

 

Here is what the author has to say on the matter.

 

 

Flayed Man: finally (i know you are busy and all) as of your personally thinking the lords of vale they are friendly to starks and tullys as if they are brothers and there are lords who are "itching" to get pieace of lannisters and want to help robb. Also tell me how friendly are they with robb right now (how the lords of vale feel about robb).

GeoRR: The lords of the Vale are numerous. As with any large group, their views vary.

GeoRR: "Brothers" overstates the case, but certainly Ned made friends during his years in the Eyrie... so did Robert, however, so some of the Vale houses would be just as well disposed toward Baratheon as toward Stark.

GeoRR: Do some of the them want to join Robb? Certainly. Most notably Bronze Yohn Royce. Others, however, want no part of the war, and some may even favor the other contenders.

 

 

 

Had Royce and what ever 'Stark' loyalists gone and fought in a war their liege Lords commanded them not to what is to stop Lyssa taking their lands in there absence as punishment ( similar to the threat Robb gives to the Greatjon when he threatened to go home) and rewarding her more loyal vassals.

 

And as GRRM says some would have been more loyal to Robert than they would have been to Ned and would not have wanted to bear arms against his children. Some may even have connections to the Lannisters themselves and some may not want to get involved in another costly civil war in which they have nothing to gain.


Edited by thelittledragonthatcould, 02 August 2014 - 07:14 PM.


#7 Stannis's birthright

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:17 PM

I think the question is did she tell the Lords that the Lannisters supposedly killed Jon Aryn ?

#8 Jon of the (Evil) Dead

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:23 PM

I think the question is did she tell the Lords that the Lannisters supposedly killed Jon Aryn ?

 

Yep, she publicly accused Tyrion of that

 

I think that most houses were waiting for Royce to take the first step, but the Bronze Yohn is too honorable to rebel just like that. He was always about to, though



#9 thelittledragonthatcould

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:36 PM

I think the question is did she tell the Lords that the Lannisters supposedly killed Jon Aryn ?

 

 

The people of Westeros see Joffrey and his siblings as Baratheons not Lannisters. It is one thing to support the Starks against the Lannisters and it is quite another to go against the Crown especially when there is no concrete proof for the accusations.



#10 Lord_Tyrell

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:39 PM

The Vale Lords are first and foremost honorable to their Lord, in this case Robert. So long as Robert says no war, they won't go to war. It's that simple.

#11 Lord_Tyrell

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:42 PM

And 20,000 men from the Royce's? I doubt the Boltons and the Freys have that many men combined, and I'd bet both houses have more men than the Royces.

#12 thelittledragonthatcould

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:45 PM

It's interesting that the only Royce who fights in the War of the Five kings is Robar, his second son, who fights for Renly.



#13 thelittledragonthatcould

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:50 PM

And 20,000 men from the Royce's? I doubt the Boltons and the Freys have that many men combined, and I'd bet both houses have more men than the Royces.

 

They don't have 20k but I imagine they can raise slightly more than the Freys and Boltons. The Royces are former kings themselves and are seen as the second most powerful family in the Vale. They have two Noble Houses sworn directly to them and a powerful Knightly House who control parts of Gulltown are sworn directly to the Royces rather than the Graftons.

 

We know that the 6 Lords Declarent can raise 20k men between them and while it is possible that they all contribute the same amount I'd guess that Royce brings more to than the Knightly House Templeton or the Noble Houses Hunter and Belmore.



#14 new djinn

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:07 PM

Because the Vale Lords are not wannabe oathbreakers(like Umber). Besides, there hardly a consensual opinion on what to do, as LF demonstrates, Belmore and Waynwood can be bribed, Hunters are hunting themselves, Templeton, Lynderly, Corbray, Grafton were pretty much indeferent. It's pretty much Royce and maybe Redfort that are grumbling. If they did march to the Riverlands to join Robb, what to stop Lysa from closing the Bloody Gate behind them and declaring them oathbreakers and seize their holdings. And they would risk this without any cause.



#15 Acolyte of Radmure

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:16 PM

Not every lord in the Vale will agree. They also don't want to go against House Arryn and even if they do, honour or fear of reprisal may hold them back. 



#16 the storm king returns

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:10 AM

Its easier Said then done to take runestone from the Royces its one of the best fortified castles in all of westeros

#17 Ser Yo of House Lo

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:45 AM

Its easier Said then done to take runestone from the Royces its one of the best fortified castles in all of westeros

It's even harder to take The Bloody Gate. And that's the same gate that would slam shut behind them should they become the Rebellious Royces.



#18 new djinn

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:54 AM

Its easier Said then done to take runestone from the Royces its one of the best fortified castles in all of westeros

Is that from the same chapter of the 20000 thousand Royce troops? I really need to find it and read it.



#19 RainGhost

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:52 AM

I wondered this because Lysa Arryn was clearly a weak (and mad) liege but it's one thing to refuse an order (i.e. Walder Frey refusing to go to Riverrun when Edmure called the banners) and quite another to persuade all the other lords to defy the liege and go to war. Nobody really wants war. If Lysa had called the banners and ordered them to go to war against the Starks, then I think Bronze Yohn Royce and some others would have rebelled against her. Also, they were all fiercely loyal to Jon Arryn as others have said and wouldn't want to do anything dishonourable. Maybe if the Blackfish had remained in the Vale, he and Bronze Yohn Royce may have been able to do something but I doubt it - all they could do really was try to persuade Lysa to go to war and we know that wasn't going to happen.



#20 thelittledragonthatcould

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:48 AM

I wondered this because Lysa Arryn was clearly a weak (and mad) liege but it's one thing to refuse an order (i.e. Walder Frey refusing to go to Riverrun when Edmure called the banners) and quite another to persuade all the other lords to defy the liege and go to war. Nobody really wants war. If Lysa had called the banners and ordered them to go to war against the Starks, then I think Bronze Yohn Royce and some others would have rebelled against her. Also, they were all fiercely loyal to Jon Arryn as others have said and wouldn't want to do anything dishonourable. Maybe if the Blackfish had remained in the Vale, he and Bronze Yohn Royce may have been able to do something but I doubt it - all they could do really was try to persuade Lysa to go to war and we know that wasn't going to happen.

 

No, that is a ridiculous notion. They are not going to go to war against the son of Jon Arryn, the family who has ruled the Vale for 2,000 years, just because they liked Ned.

 

They would abstain, send as few troops as possible but they are unlikely to outwardly rebel against their own Overlord in favor for the North who historically have fought a number of wars against each other.